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Author Topic: How the Kzer-za could have won the war  (Read 4754 times)
Death 999
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2011, 05:07:10 pm »

Fwiffo was the one who said 'dozens', right? He could have been getting a version that was subject to some degree of spin or minimization - if not by the Ur-Quan, then the Spathi leaders.
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2011, 05:44:04 pm »

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Only the Yehat were left at this point. The Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm were the first to be defeated

I would have sworn they were the last to be defeated and Earth was actually first to fall. Earth was in between the territories of everyone and when they crashed through the defensive line they split the alliance apart by taking us out in the center. The Syreen I believe are the ones that said when Earth fell, the alliance just came apart.
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2011, 05:49:11 pm »

The defeat of the Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm was what broke the stalemate, but the fall of Earth is what really unravelled the Alliance; everyone else was defeated or gone in short order. But had the Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm not been taken out of the picture, it's likely that the Alliance could have continued resisting the Hierarchy's attempts to get to Earth, at least for a while (maybe quite a long while).
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2011, 06:03:03 am »

I know it's against the rules for them to get their battle thralls to help, but what about reverse - engineering their technology and equipping it on their ships? They could also use the technology from fallow slave races.

Imagine a fleet of dreadnoughts that can cloak ...
The Ilwrath ships are designs and technology provided to the Ilwrath from the Ur-Quan.  If the Ur-Quan had the cloaking technology prior to the local conflicts, there is probably a good reason they haven't incorporated it into their ships (power requirements of the fusion cannon and life support for 42 crew members perhaps).  My one point of curiosity with the Doctrinal War is whether the Kzer-Za used their fighters (since they were all piloted by slaves, it might be cheating).  In fact, the Kzer-Za might have lost because they went into every battle with just one crewmember: the Ur-Quan captain.
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2011, 06:14:41 am »

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The Ilwrath ships are designs and technology provided to the Ilwrath from the Ur-Quan.  If the Ur-Quan had the cloaking technology prior to the local conflicts, there is probably a good reason they haven't incorporated it into their ships (power requirements of the fusion cannon and life support for 42 crew members perhaps).  My one point of curiosity with the Doctrinal War is whether the Kzer-Za used their fighters (since they were all piloted by slaves, it might be cheating).  In fact, the Kzer-Za might have lost because they went into every battle with just one crewmember: the Ur-Quan captain.

While I doubt they went into battle with one crew member there is something of a point here, did they use slaves on their ships still or not?
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2011, 11:54:00 pm »

While I doubt they went into battle with one crew member there is something of a point here, did they use slaves on their ships still or not?

They probably didn't have much of a choice. If anything, the Dnyarri made the Kzer-Za's territorial instincts even stronger to lower the chances of conspiracy and uprising among the more intelligent of their slaves.
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2011, 06:17:10 pm »

I don't believe the Kzer-Za actually used slaves on their ships. I mean, they haven't even been talking to them directly. They were using their talking pets to do the dirty job. I just can't imagine the Kzer-Za captain with the Hierarchy slaves onboard the same Dreadnought. In addition, the Kzer-Za aren't afraid to pilot their fighters and die for their cause.
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2011, 08:44:39 pm »

I don't believe the Kzer-Za actually used slaves on their ships. I mean, they haven't even been talking to them directly. They were using their talking pets to do the dirty job. I just can't imagine the Kzer-Za captain with the Hierarchy slaves onboard the same Dreadnought. In addition, the Kzer-Za aren't afraid to pilot their fighters and die for their cause.

Manual says differently.

Quote from: Star Control I manual
SHIP: THE UR-QUAN DREADNOUGHT

The Ur-Quan Dreadnought is the single most devastating ship in known space. Alternately termed “Planetary Siege Units”, a single specimen of this feared ship has succeeded in subduing and enslaving entire worlds. A sole Ur- Quan commands each Dreadnought, manipulating heterogeneous crews assembled from the Hierarchy’s slave races.
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2011, 05:32:23 am »

This does make one wonder how a ship of 41 slaves is kept in line by the single slave master. I mean the ur-Quan never had the crew revolt even once?
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2011, 06:17:51 pm »

I'm sure it happens many times. I'm sure the Ur-Quan retaliate by executing everyone in the mutinous crew members' families before they execute the crew themselves as an example, if not just bombard their home city. The Ur-Quan are utterly ruthless when it comes to quelling dissent, considering how they responded to the Spathi's unwillingness to fight.
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2011, 06:32:30 pm »


Quote from: Star Control I manual
SHIP: THE UR-QUAN DREADNOUGHT

The Ur-Quan Dreadnought is the single most devastating ship in known space. Alternately termed “Planetary Siege Units”, a single specimen of this feared ship has succeeded in subduing and enslaving entire worlds. A sole Ur- Quan commands each Dreadnought, manipulating heterogeneous crews assembled from the Hierarchy’s slave races.

Heterogeneous crews? It sounds inpreferable to develop such an equipment that would be capable of supporting life for multiple species onboard the single Dreadnought. The different species require very different environments and habits in order to survive. Inpreferable, but still possible, I guess. At least the manual says so. There is the similar problem with the Mauler since the Druuge attend to buy slaves from other species and use them to man the Maulers.
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2011, 10:57:03 pm »

Also the Syreen use slaves from other races on their ships which are hypnotized
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2011, 11:02:35 pm »

Heterogeneous crews? It sounds inpreferable to develop such an equipment that would be capable of supporting life for multiple species onboard the single Dreadnought. The different species require very different environments and habits in order to survive. Inpreferable, but still possible, I guess. At least the manual says so. There is the similar problem with the Mauler since the Druuge attend to buy slaves from other species and use them to man the Maulers.

Make all the inferiors use a breathing mask. It shouldn't be too hard to provide an arbitrary mixture of liquid gas to refill tanks, or even to fill a properly-sealed bunkroom with whatever atmosphere the occupants require. Granted, there's a not-insignificant possibility of the gas mask failing, but the Ur-Quan (and Druuge/Syreen for that matter) aren't exactly known for their commitment to slave safety...
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2011, 12:33:56 am »

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I'm sure it happens many times. I'm sure the Ur-Quan retaliate by executing everyone in the mutinous crew members' families before they execute the crew themselves as an example, if not just bombard their home city. The Ur-Quan are utterly ruthless when it comes to quelling dissent, considering how they responded to the Spathi's unwillingness to fight.

You have a point but i still am surprised they have never had a ship taken over by the crew, they are so paranoid about someone getting access to one of their ships  you would think they would be terrified of a slave revolt.
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Re: How the Kzer-za could have won the war
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2011, 03:10:04 am »

You have a point but i still am surprised they have never had a ship taken over by the crew, they are so paranoid about someone getting access to one of their ships  you would think they would be terrified of a slave revolt.

Would you dare to start a mutiny, knowing that even if you succeed, your whole family/city/planet/species would suffer for it? (Not to mention all the other Hierarchy vessels that have been given orders to shoot you on sight...) Even Hayes was reluctant to join Zelnick, for fear of what the Ur-Quan would do to humanity at large.
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