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Author Topic: How can Kor-Ah beat Ur-Quan?  (Read 8147 times)
Rowan McCartney
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How can Kor-Ah beat Ur-Quan?
« on: February 10, 2003, 03:42:59 pm »

Lets be straight, SC2 is the best games ever.  But I have always wondered how it's possible for Kor-Ah to ever beat Ur-Quan in the battle thralls......  Ur-Quan is nearly invincible in battle with kor-ah...  Just a thought.
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Re: How can Kor-Ah beat Ur-Quan?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2003, 04:09:27 pm »

I never found it very difficult to beat an Ur-Quan with a Kohr-Ah. If they send fighters, use your FRIED. Create a little barrier of those ninja stars between you and the opponent and he'll either waste firepower shooting through them or take damage. It's all about doing what you can to keep the Ur-Quan at bay while sending out a flurry of stars. If he ever gets too close just maul him with the FRIED. When you learn how to time it right, it's a killer.

I'm not trying to say the Kohr-Ah are going to win every fight, cuz we both know it's not going to happen. But they're not just fighting a bunch of ship-to-ship battles, they have fleets and there are combat tactics and such. I'm sure it's a different way of fighting than the player experiences.

And anyway, the Ur-Quan fleet was reduced by about 30% when the Shofixti made their sun flare up. Add to that the fact that the Ur-Quan won't let anybody else fight with them, and there you have it.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2003, 04:10:07 pm by Matticus » Logged

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Re: How can Kor-Ah beat Ur-Quan?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2003, 10:41:17 pm »

Also, even without the loss of 30% of their fleet, I think the Kohr-Ah simply have more backing. I mean, they cleanse worlds. That basically takes a little less resources than enslaving, seeing as when the Kzer-Za go "Alright, we've defeated you and now you surrender. We will either build a huge slave-shield or allow you to carry on and be battle thralls. I imagine every now and then someone turns against them as well. The point is that some races get to keep most of their resources, and others get a slaveshield that needs taking care of.

When the Kohr-Ah get to the #Alright we've defeated you" point they simply keep going and destroy everything. then they can take as much resources as they want. Do they colonise? In that case, they'd have a huge backup force, but given their psychology I think not.

So even if the fleets would arrive unscathed, the Ur-quan fleet has wandered through half the galaxy fighting, and then using some parts of the galaxys resources to arm themselves, constantly leaving ships behind to guard the rear from upstart Battle thralls, whereas the Kohr-Ah just have empty void behind them, and have had the opportunity to use all the resources in their half of the galaxy (well ,except for what they burn to the ground).

So they clearly have a stronger fleet.
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Re: How can Kor-Ah beat Ur-Quan?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2003, 11:29:42 pm »

Yeah, but it's not like cleansing life from the galaxy doesn't involve a LOT of fighting...
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Re: How can Kor-Ah beat Ur-Quan?
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2003, 12:24:08 am »

Ture, but to totally subjugate a race and to agnili.. ahnila.. well you know is similar up until the point of surrender. at that stage to kohr-ah go on fighting, and depending on the race they may well encounter massive resistance or very little.

Onm the other hand, dismantling a race fleet, or keeping an eye on them in case of insurrection must take resources as well.

Interesting point. When the humans gave up, the whole race was slaveshielded. But if a race consists of cooperating planets, or maybe several space empires. How would they sutff anyone onto one planet without turning it into a slow genocide?
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Re: How can Kor-Ah beat Ur-Quan?
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2003, 02:12:11 am »

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Interesting point. When the humans gave up, the whole race was slaveshielded. But if a race consists of cooperating planets, or maybe several space empires. How would they sutff anyone onto one planet without turning it into a slow genocide?


Go visit Vela I for your answer.  Grin
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Re: How can Kor-Ah beat Ur-Quan?
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2003, 02:55:13 am »

The answer is simple: The Sa-Matra.

It's one of the reasons why the Kohr-Ah are so darned evil.  That and they like to kill all life in the galaxy, just for shits and giggles.
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Re: How can Kor-Ah beat Ur-Quan?
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2003, 03:16:48 am »

Erm, the Kohr-ah are purging the life of the galaxy so that they won't be taken over again like before with the Dnyarri.  They simply think that the only way to be absolutely sure it won't happen again is to destroy all life in the galaxy, because they were bred to be a warrior race by the Dnyarri, and that's how they think.
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Re: How can Kor-Ah beat Ur-Quan?
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2003, 05:19:50 am »

You must not forget the genetic purpose each of the two races was created for.
If I'm not mistaken, the Ur-Quan Kor-Ah (black) were genetically created warriors, meaning all their thinking and behavior is totally directed on war and all its aspects.
On the other hand, the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za (our 'favorite' greenies) are scientists and bureaucrats. NOW, what do you think who's more suited to fight a war, huh?
Just imagine a single "Rambo"-Kor-Ah visiting an office full of typewriting Kzer-Za and you will get the picture...
« Last Edit: February 11, 2003, 05:21:30 am by German_Nightmare » Logged

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Re: How can Kor-Ah beat Ur-Quan?
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2003, 05:34:43 am »

The Kohr-Ah aren't just warriors, they are laborers as well. They are the doers.

The Green Ur-Quan, effete scientists and bureaucrats and the Black Ur-Quan, their Effectuators, the builders, the fighters, the doers.
The Kzer-Za are the thinkers.

They built two Ur-Quan sub-races one Green, the thinkers and planners the other Black, the warriors and laborers.
When this is considered their respective choices of how to proceed after overthrowing the Dnyarri make sense.

The Kzer-Za set up this big bureaucratic system with a lot of red tape and very specific rules about everything. Their solution was complicated but effective.

The Kohr-Ah chose a path that required a lot less thinking and a lot more doing: kill everything that isn't an Ur-Quan. Their solution was simple but effective.

I think both subspecies are effective warriors, however. Their track records speak for them: neither of them lost a war after they gained their freedom (that we know of) unless it was against each other. Until the events of SC2 when they both lost.
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Re: How can Kor-Ah beat Ur-Quan?
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2003, 07:11:34 am »

I agree.  The balance of power between the warrior and the scientist is a lot more even when they both have a huge, complicated spaceship at their disposal.
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Re: How can Kor-Ah beat Ur-Quan?
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2003, 08:37:08 am »

When the Kohr-Ah wipe a system clean, they move on.
When the Kzer-Za conquer a system they probably leave behind some ships to make sure that thralls stay loyal.  By the very nature of their two approaches, they Kohr-Ah would seem to bring a bigger fleet to the battle.  The Kzer-Za are too spread out, while the Kohr-Ah move en masse.
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Re: How can Kor-Ah beat Ur-Quan?
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2003, 09:03:03 am »

All of you are making similar points supporting the Kohr-Ah, but remember that the Kzer-Za's strategy for subjegating species was to conquer the weak races first, then progress onto the stronger. They would make their nearby Battle Thralls do all the dirty work when it came down to engaging tough spots (like the Alliance of Free Stars), so this would greatly lower Kzer-Za casualties compared to the loses the Kohr-Ah took. Notice that at the beginning of the Doctrinal War, both Ur-Quan and Kohr-Ah have roughly the same fleet size. So their doctrines are equally efficient at neutralizing other races. But in a fair fight with no Thralls involved, the warrior class wins pretty much by default. This makes me believe that when the Ur-Quan saw the Kohr-Ah fleet wasn't vastly smaller than theirs, they probably knew their cause was lost but didn't want to give up.
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Re: How can Kor-Ah beat Ur-Quan?
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2003, 03:44:11 pm »

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They would make their nearby Battle Thralls do all the dirty work when it came down to engaging tough spots (like the Alliance of Free Stars), so this would greatly lower Kzer-Za casualties compared to the loses the Kohr-Ah took.


Good point.  While the Kzer-Zah do have to deploy extra resources to slave shield rather than to just destroy, as well as maintaining a beauracracy for their Thralls, they do gain allies that make ensuing wars easier and reduce Kzer-Zah casualties.

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But in a fair fight with no Thralls involved, the warrior class wins pretty much by default.


Why would you say that?  Obviously, while each side has its own philosophical leanings, they both have warships that are the result of highly advanced technology.  This is not hand-to-hand combat--as long as the warships are comparable, then the battle between the thinker and ther warrior will be even (one could even argue the thinkers would be better at strategizing, thus giving them the advantage; however both races are likely equal in this regard due to their thousands of years of combat experience).
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Re: How can Kor-Ah beat Ur-Quan?
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2003, 11:25:59 pm »

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Why would you say that?  Obviously, while each side has its own philosophical leanings, they both have warships that are the result of highly advanced technology.  This is not hand-to-hand combat--as long as the warships are comparable, then the battle between the thinker and ther warrior will be even (one could even argue the thinkers would be better at strategizing, thus giving them the advantage; however both races are likely equal in this regard due to their thousands of years of combat experience).

I would think the same thing myself, but there's one fact that kind proves that the Kohr-Ah are superior combatants, even in space: the Kohr-Ah defeat the Kzer-Za in the game. Nothing even makes it possible for the Kzer-Za to win. After the Utwig, Thraddash, and Suppox all charge into the war and go after the Kohr-Ah (it's true that all three of these races were also attacked by the Kzer-Za, but they mostly tried to stay focused on fighting the black Ur-Quan), the Kohr-Ah still end up victorious.
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