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Topic: How can Kor-Ah beat Ur-Quan? (Read 9013 times)
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Lukipela
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The Ancient One
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Go visit Vela I for your answer. 
First off, that doesn't really answer any of my qusetions does it? Vela I was a small planet whose population was small enough to probably have fit well on earth. So the question about how to act with a large spacefaring civilisation refusing the thrallship still stands. Also, when Vela I was discovered by the Kzer-Za, they were in the middle of a rather importan twar. They probably had neither the time, resources or incentive to transfer the popuilation back to Earth, seeing as they had a mite larger problems. Secondly, seeing as the Kzer-Za didn't know about Vela I when they slaveshielded Earth, it really doesn't have any relevance on my question about how the Kzer-Za would react to sveral groups of a certain species acting as independent nations and refusing to surrender together, and how their shielding/thralldom would be carried out. You can't really react to what you don't know, can you?
Excellent point on the Kzer-Za taking less hits due to their battle thralls. I suppose that would make their losses quite a bitl ower, and seeing as you need captains as well as resources it might well even out. another intersting point that I think I heard mentioned either here or on Channel 44 earlier on. The Kzer-Za basically only need one person per ship, the rest is stocked by battle thralls. So if they have the resources, they can build a ship per race member. However, the Kohr-Ah aren't gonna bring anyone aboard their ships. If we assume (and should we?) that this means there are 42 Kohr-Ah per ship, their fleet would have a smaller ratio compared to the general amount of population... and seeing as their population will be smaller since the Kzer-Za will save losses thanks to the battle thralls, this means the Kzer-Za would actually be stronger... So I guess we have the Shofixti to thank for almost becoming extinct...
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« Last Edit: February 12, 2003, 12:09:11 am by Lukipela »
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What's up doc?
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Shiver
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Excellent point on the Kzer-Za taking less hits due to their battle thralls. I suppose that would make their losses quite a bitl ower, and seeing as you need captains as well as resources it might well even out. another intersting point that I think I heard mentioned either here or on Channel 44 earlier on. The Kzer-Za basically only need one person per ship, the rest is stocked by battle thralls. So if they have the resources, they can build a ship per race member. However, the Kohr-Ah aren't gonna bring anyone aboard their ships. If we assume (and should we?) that this means there are 42 Kohr-Ah per ship, their fleet would have a smaller ratio compared to the general amount of population... and seeing as their population will be smaller since the Kzer-Za will save losses thanks to the battle thralls, this means the Kzer-Za would actually be stronger... So I guess we have the Shofixti to thank for almost becoming extinct...
I don't think the Kzer-Za had battle thralls on board their ships for the doctrinal war because you never hear any of the races complain about having to send large amounts of crew over to the conflict. If the Kzer-Za were doing that, they probably would have all the Thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah, too. No, I believe the Ur-Quan see this as some sort of holy war between brothers only. So both Ur-Quan species are either doing:
One crew member per ship. The rest of the work is done by machines.
OR
Full crew compliments for their ships, petty territorial instincts ignored for the time.
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Death 999
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We did. You did. Yes we can. No.
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On the other hand, smashing the fire button with a Dreadnought will get you much further than with a Marauder. What is it - something like 42 damage in two seconds with a Dreadnought, and 16 damage in 2 seconds with the Marauder? The Kohr-Ah have to keep their distance and pelt, or else execute tricky side-swipe maneuvers to pile on maximum FRIED.
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Cyamarin
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Midimaze!!!
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I would guess if you're a soldier and have a warrior's instincts, you'll want to have the capability to execute complicated maneuvers like the sideswipes you mentioned. If you're a scientist and intellectual, especially one as violently xenophobic as the Kzer-Za, you're going to want to invent something incredibly powerful, so that when you actually get into a fight all you have to do is hit the button a bunch of times.
Either that, or you'll want someone more expendable to do the fighting for you--like your fighters...
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Censored
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Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep.
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I've read a few comments about resources invested in whatever by the Kzer-Za.. Don't forget that at the first Doctrinal War, the Kzer-Za won, i.e. they wiped enough of the Kohr-Ah. Over 20,000 years during their spin around the galaxy, both Ur-Quans have populated their ranks, where the Kzer-Za had a lead (exponentially speaking in the end they should have a larger population than the Kohr-Ah).
Obviously they will lose many resources while defeating other species, which is exactly why they use thralls.
They will lose the second war however, most probably because of the Shofixti incident, rather than "resource spending".
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« Last Edit: February 12, 2003, 11:28:54 pm by Censored »
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"You boldly enter our space! Approach this Dreadnought as though it were a recreation base and then play the dumb hominid?
Who do you take us for, Captain... Spathi!?"
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Scott
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does whatever a spider can
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Erm, who says there can only be one Kohr-Ah/Kzer-Za per ship?
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Nic.
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The manual does.
At least as it pertains to the Kzer-Za. The Kohr-Ah, having no use for subserviant races, can be presumed to be the only race crewing Marauder vessels.
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« Last Edit: February 13, 2003, 03:34:16 am by Nic. »
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Lukipela
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I don't think the Kzer-Za had battle thralls on board their ships for the doctrinal war because you never hear any of the races complain about having to send large amounts of crew over to the conflict. If the Kzer-Za were doing that, they probably would have all the Thralls fighting the Kohr-Ah, too.
well, the thralls already serve on board the Kzer-Za ships, doon't they? And it's not as if the Ur-quan are suddenly building a LOT more ships, they are fighting with the fleet they already have, so the thrall races aren't going to have to give away huge amounts of their population. There would be a noticable rise in the amount of fresh recruits needed as resupply crew I supopose, but given the Kohr-Ah's powwerful position I think more Kzer-Za ships were destoryed than just crippled.
And the Thrall races must have become quite used to giving away alarge part of their popuulation during the Alliance war, so they probably see it as a nrmal thing, and wouldn't frumble too much about it anyway...
In regards to the Kzer-Za having a lead, this is very true. but they'd also have to leave a lot more poeple behinf to cover their backs from upstart Thralls. Alsom, as there is only one Kzer-Za per ship, they might have been forced to take some sort of birthcontrol measures, not to overcorwd themselves before they had ebough ships. The Kohr-Ah don't have that problem...
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What's up doc?
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Kohr-Ah_Primat
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Lady Marauder
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Also, as there is only one Kzer-Za per ship, they might have been forced to take some sort of birthcontrol measures, not to overcorwd themselves before they had ebough ships. The Kohr-Ah don't have that problem...
I still have an incredibly hard time accepting that Kzer-Za cannot tolerate other Ur-Quan in close proximity, while Kohr-Ah somehow can. Given that the entire race evolved without natural predators and became its own natural predator, and the tendency for Ur-Quan to slaughter any other being in close proximity seems to derive from that evolutionary trait, I doubt that something so integral to the violent territorial nature of the Ur-Quan is absent in the Kohr-Ah.
I think it's far more likely that the creators just forgot that point (that Kohr-Ah don't take slaves) during the programming of the game.
Of course, that's not to say the crew can't be made up of robot drones (the Syreen song works on the Mmrnmhrm, doesn't it?) or even Kohr-Ah larvae. And even if the Syreen song works on the Kohr-Ah Marauder, and its crew are automated drones, it could always just be an uncaught inaccuracy. Much like being able to Syreen Song the Probes, if the creators hadn't remembered to program in their immunity.
We evolved on a hostile world, the descendants of solitary hunters.
In a world where one species is the dominant killer
one's only threat is one's brother, one's sister, anyone of one's species.
Civilization did not come easily to us, we earned it.
...
Of all the species we have met, only the Taalo did not trigger our instinctive territoriality.
They were the only people we could stand with, or talk to, without the hunter inside us screaming
`Kill the interloper! Rip out its life!'
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We are the Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah.
Our nature, the fulfillment of our fate requires your destruction.
You are filth. It is now your time to be cleansed.
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Shiver
Guest
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Another problem I have with the one Ur-Quan per ship vs. 42 Kohr-Ah per ship is this: even if it is possible, I hate the idea of the Kohr-Ah having 42 times the population of the Kzer-Za. They're supposed to be equals.
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ScreamingTemporalDoom
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It's never explicitly stated that the Kzer-Za's Battle Thralls maintain their automony forever. It would seem quite logical to me that the Kzer-Za would use their Battle Thralls to aid them in the subjegation of a region of space then, once that was done, turn on their Thralls and forcibly Slave Shield _them_. This would eliminate any possibilty of a revolution and not require the Ur-Quan to leave ships behind as guardians.
In our part of the galaxy, the Kohr-Ah simply showed up before the Kzer-Za could execute the next part of their Path and make their Battle Thralls Slave Shielded.
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Shiver
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It's never explicitly stated that the Kzer-Za's Battle Thralls maintain their automony forever. It would seem quite logical to me that the Kzer-Za would use their Battle Thralls to aid them in the subjegation of a region of space then, once that was done, turn on their Thralls and forcibly Slave Shield _them_. This would eliminate any possibilty of a revolution and not require the Ur-Quan to leave ships behind as guardians.
In our part of the galaxy, the Kohr-Ah simply showed up before the Kzer-Za could execute the next part of their Path and make their Battle Thralls Slave Shielded.
Never explicitly? More like never at all. But I see where you're coming from, for it would be kind of dumb to subjegate thralls, then just leave them alone for hundreds of years while the Ur-Quan are elsewhere. If I were Ur-Quan, I wouldn't want to be left behind to watch a bunch of inferiors while most of my brothers battled gloriously with the Kohr-Ah.
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« Last Edit: April 10, 2003, 09:13:09 am by Shiver »
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