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Author Topic: Need Melee Help?  (Read 13729 times)
Captain Smith
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Need Melee Help?
« on: February 13, 2003, 05:20:10 am »

I thought it might be fun to have a topic like this...is there a particular match-up in melee you have difficulty with?  Is there a ship you just can't seem to beat?  Do you have a "wrecking crew" ship that gets stopped always by a particular ship?  Is there a ship you just can't figure out how to win with?

Maybe someone here can help?  Why not post it?
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Re: Need Melee Help?
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2003, 01:40:24 am »

Sorry man -- the computer AI is laughable Wink
I hope once the final release is out people would start on improving the game by, among other things, making the computer a bit 'smarter'..
« Last Edit: February 15, 2003, 01:41:33 am by Censored » Logged

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Captain Smith
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Re: Need Melee Help?
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2003, 04:47:08 am »

I agree...remember if you look at the UQM enhancements page, I suggested making another computer AI, noting several stupid things are done by the computer AI...

But thought it might be a nice topic for the newbies  Wink
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Shiver
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Re: Need Melee Help?
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2003, 05:41:18 am »

Enemy Avatars on awesome seem impossible to beat with most ships. I killed one with a Druuge Mauler for fun once, though. But what about with my favorite race, the Orz?

One thing that could use fixing: AIs ignore Thraddash afterburner blasts. This makes the Torch the most valuable ship in the game against AIs when it's supposed to be crappy.
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Captain Smith
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Re: Need Melee Help?
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2003, 08:15:15 am »

Orz was the second ship I was able to defeat Avatars with (first being Thraddash because of that afterburner)...I turn the turret backwards and start flying.  I have to play keep-away sometimes, but usually I'm able to just keep sending shot back into the Avatar until he dies...
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Shiver
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Re: Need Melee Help?
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2003, 09:09:38 am »

Alright, I gave it another go. I'm doing a lot better against the Chmmr as an Orz. Whipping around a planet is one way to get out of it's grasp, but planets are too sparse to depend on. I noticed there are a few other ways to wriggle out of it's grasp long enough to pound him to death while using the gun Spathi style. I've beaten the weak AI (doesn't use tractor beam, very easy) and the good AI (a tough cookie) so far, but the awesome AI has yet to lose to me. If you launch a few space marines a bit before he closes in enough to kill you, the computer swirves away a bit to keep from being boarded, giving you enough leeway to escape. If you take out a sattelite and have a lot of crew left, you can kill him with marines.

UPDATE: Awesome AI defeated. The *rabid cows* have *danced* their last *dance*.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2003, 09:17:01 am by Shiver » Logged
Daniel
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Re: Need Melee Help?
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2003, 07:40:36 pm »

Quote
Enemy Avatars on awesome seem impossible to beat with most ships. I killed one with a Druuge Mauler for fun once, though. But what about with my favorite race, the Orz?


 Here's my list.  Note that this is relative to playing the computer -- some of these ship combinations are no problem for a human.  (I'm leaving out the Thraddash because, well, you know)

 The following ships can beat a Chmmr without batting an eye: Orz, Druuge (well, you'll have to sacrifice some crew), maybe Slylandro (I don't play with it much).

 With just a little difficulty, a Pkunk Fury can beat a Chmmr.

 The following ships can beat a Chmmr, but only with difficulty (and usually a little luck): Mycon, Syreen, Melnorme, and Zoq-Fot-Pik.  Note: I suspect the ZFP can reliably beat a Chmmr, but it takes a lot of patience.  I've only completely destroyed a Chmmr with one once or twice. (sometimes I finish off a mostly-dead ship with one of my weaker options, such as ZFP)

 The following ships can beat or seriously wound a Chmmr, but will usually be destroyed or seriously wounded themselves: Ur-Quan (both varieties), Shofixti (it can take out the zapsats), Chenjesu.

 The remaining ships are either sitting ducks, or ships that I don't play with enough to give an opinion on.

 Daniel
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Daniel
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Re: Need Melee Help?
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2003, 07:44:25 pm »

Quote
Alright, I gave it another go. I'm doing a lot better against the Chmmr as an Orz. Whipping around a planet is one way to get out of it's grasp, but planets are too sparse to depend on. I noticed there are a few other ways to wriggle out of it's grasp long enough to pound him to death while using the gun Spathi style.


Basically, you want to exploit the fact that the Chmmr can't turn/accelerate as quickly as you.  It can pull you in just a little faster than you run, but if you pull a 180-degree turn and zip around it, it has to turn all the way around to catch you again.  I always keep an Orz for killing Chmmr (and a few other nasties in a pinch, like Kohr-Ah and Slylandro), and I never use marines on the Avatar -- even if I've destroyed all the zapsats.  It's not worth the crew.

Daniel
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Shiver
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Re: Need Melee Help?
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2003, 12:56:35 am »

Hm... but there's no way for an Orz to defeat an awesome AI Androsynth, is there? I'm guessing the Orz disintigrated the Androsynth magically because their "scent" made them vulnerable to stuff like that, because there's no way in heck the Orz could defeat the Androsynth unless their invasion fleet was larger than the Ur-Quan armada.

Oh well. The Nemesis would prove to be more valuable than either Ur-Quan ship if it could reliably defeat EVERY SINGLE SHIP in the game, in which case it would have to be a 30 point ship. Speaking of that, I always thought the Chmmr ship should be 40 points because it's clearly the strongest ship in the game.
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Re: Need Melee Help?
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2003, 02:59:25 am »

Speaking of how to defeat the Avatar, you guys are forgetting another smaller ship that can take it out.  The Androsynth Guardian, in comet form, can fit in between the front laser section of the ship and the wing of the ship and take the ship out if positioned right.  I've worked this tactic pretty well and can normally get in the right spot at least 70% of the time.  It's fun to watch the ship fry, too, using this sweet trick.

As well, I assume you're just forgetting the Dreadnought, Broodhome, Marauder and Trader for the reason that they're big ships.  The trader to me is a good Avatar killer.  The confusing ray dsisables their tractor beam so that you can stay away and pelt the ship with blasts from afar.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2003, 03:02:04 am by Omni-Sama » Logged

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Captain Smith
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Re: Need Melee Help?
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2003, 04:24:45 am »

For the record, I don't really think the Avatar is the toughest thing...usually I can put a good hurt on one with any ship...IMO, the Kohr-Ah ship followed by the Chenjesu ship are probably the toughest to take out with most ships.

Depending on the circumstances, I can usually hurt an Avatar pretty bad with the following ships:

Death for Chmmr Always: Traddash, Orz, Utwig, Supox, Spathi, Druuge, Yehat, Shofixti/VUX (1st takes out the ZapSats, 2nd finishes the job - this was the very first thing I was able to do to defeat a Chmmr)
Death for Chmmr Sometimes (if no death, hurt the ship pretty badly): Zot-Foq-Pik, Androsynth, Chenjesu, Kohr-Ah, Ur-Quan, Chmmr, Mycon, Pkunk, VUX, Melnorme
Can do something usually if the ZapSats are gone: Umgah, Ilwrath.

If I haven't mentioned the ship either I forgot it or it's one that is worthless to me when it comes to the Chmmr.
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Re: Need Melee Help?
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2003, 10:21:31 pm »

...but you're thinking against the computer here, right?  Playing against a human controlled Avatar with a Thraddash is a good way to get your butt handed to you.
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Captain Smith
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Re: Need Melee Help?
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2003, 01:05:42 am »

Yep I'm primarily thinking the computer with that list...with a lot of those ships I know I'd get my ass handed to me just if I was playing against myself...or any other human...

Just was posting my list in response to the statements: "Enemy Avatars on awesome seem impossible to beat with most ships." and "Speaking of that, I always thought the Chmmr ship should be 40 points because it's clearly the strongest ship in the game.".

So yes, talking the computer AI on awesome here.
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OHHDEAR
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Re: Need Melee Help?
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2003, 03:01:28 am »

What about the annoyances? How do you take out a well piloted AI Slylandro? Spathi? Ilwrath? STINKING SYREEN?!

And I am bound and determined to beat the snot out of several ships with the ZoqFotPik. I WILL GET GOOD WITH IT!
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Death 999
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Re: Need Melee Help?
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2003, 04:42:17 am »

Don't forget the Yehat and Utwig that have picosecond reflexes so they spend one point of battery to block instant traversing shots. The Utwig seem to have been programmed more carefully than the Yehat - I had some real trouble doing any damage to them with the relatively quick shot of the Druuge at near point blank range... #$%&-ers

I agree that the AI syreen is REALLY annoying.

Slylandro - as you find in the game, an earthling cruiser can do real damage to a probe on Awesome (presuming the game enemies are on awesome...)

Spathi can be annoying, but the AI can be defeated by Earthlings, Pkunk, Androsynth, Orz, Shofixti, Mycon (though this will be a long batte!)... Of course, don't chase them.

Ilwrath - the best way is to mark the middle of the battlefield so that you know just when facing down is exactly facing the cloaked ship. Of course, use something with range.
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