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Author Topic: Project6014's new ships  (Read 12528 times)
superbutcherx
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Project6014's new ships
« on: December 03, 2011, 11:28:49 pm »

Ok, guys!

Those of you that have tried out P6014 0.2.0 must've tried the 2 new ships: Baul and Foon-foon. (And those of you who haven't: Go do it already!)
I'm the guy responsible for programming them *ahem*. (Although I can't take the credit for most of the ideas for these ships - Kwayne & Benjamin have been the really creative souls)

I'm asking you to give some feedback on a couple of things we've been thinking with the gang:
- Should Baul's gas explosion shockwaves damage also the Baul ship itself? Currently they don't. If they did, it'd be required to also increase Baul's primary weapon's range to avoid hurting oneself too easily.
- Is Baul's turning rate ok?  It's a bit slowish, but making it too fast would make it too powerful...
- Does Foon-foon's spinning blade attack deal too much damage? Should it be nerfed down? Or is it good as it is?
- Do the ships have enough / too many / too few crew? What about other balance issues?
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Alvarin
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Re: Project6014's new ships
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2011, 11:54:00 pm »

I have  one comment about the Dervish thing - it's triggered by only left turn key, but not right. I find it a bit strange.
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player1
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Re: Project6014's new ships
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2011, 04:07:55 am »

I really like concept of Baul ship, but I think that AI is just to weak to handle its mechanics.

If Baul can become enemies in full game, it really needs to be improved.

Foon-foon's ship is fun to use too, especially secondary attack. Maybe even too much... I pretty much use it exclusively, without touching primary fire. Fly by, and use "lightning saber". Easier then aiming primary weapon. But I like it. Grin
« Last Edit: December 04, 2011, 04:11:36 am by player1 » Logged
superbutcherx
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Re: Project6014's new ships
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2011, 10:22:48 am »

I have  one comment about the Dervish thing - it's triggered by only left turn key, but not right. I find it a bit strange.

Hmm, that's odd. It's supposed to work on Special+left as well as special+right.
Both of these combos work on my Mac as well as on my PC. Maybe your keys are conflicting? Have you tried using a different key for your special and see what happens?
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superbutcherx
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Re: Project6014's new ships
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2011, 10:27:18 am »

I really like concept of Baul ship, but I think that AI is just to weak to handle its mechanics.

If Baul can become enemies in full game, it really needs to be improved.

Foon-foon's ship is fun to use too, especially secondary attack. Maybe even too much... I pretty much use it exclusively, without touching primary fire. Fly by, and use "lightning saber". Easier then aiming primary weapon. But I like it. Grin

Great that you like 'em!

The Baul (and Foon-foon) AI weakness stems from the fact that it's just a basic AI without any ship-specific modifications. Too bad we didn't have time to make a proper AI since our dedicated AI guy had some pressing Real Life (tm) matters...  I'll try to give the new ships some decent intelligence for the next update, but it'd be so much easier if we had a programmer on board, that was focusing only on the ships.

Yup, Foon-foon is pretty much all about the secondary Cheesy
We thought of making the primary weapon a bit different since it's a bit dull now. Maybe make it act like Arilou beam - a "stuttering" laser, also make it a bit more powerful. How'd that sound?
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dczanik
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Re: Project6014's new ships
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2011, 07:13:22 pm »

What about making the standard weapon capable of charging up like the Melnorme? Instead of firing out a larger beam, it grows a larger ball (indicating the size of the beam), then unleashes the fury?

Not quite as ridiculous as this, but it gives you a general idea:
http://elmundotech.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/iron_man_photon_cannon_bmp_jpgcopy.jpg

My only problem with making the Foon-Foon weaker is it already feels like a pretty weak ship. 
Also, I always imagined the FF saber as something that would need to be charged up.  The ship starts to spin faster and faster, then hit the direction and it would fly across the screen with its beam out. How that would actually work in melee though, I couldn't tell you.

6014 still hasn't (IMO) released a ship as devastating or fun  (other than the non-canon ISD) as any of the big behemoth ships like the Dreadnaught, Maurader, or Avatar.

Anybody find a ship comparable to the Foon-Foon Typhoon or the Baul ship?
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- Damon
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superbutcherx
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Re: Project6014's new ships
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2011, 08:38:19 am »

What about making the standard weapon capable of charging up like the Melnorme? Instead of firing out a larger beam, it grows a larger ball (indicating the size of the beam), then unleashes the fury?

Not quite as ridiculous as this, but it gives you a general idea:
http://elmundotech.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/iron_man_photon_cannon_bmp_jpgcopy.jpg

My only problem with making the Foon-Foon weaker is it already feels like a pretty weak ship. 
Also, I always imagined the FF saber as something that would need to be charged up.  The ship starts to spin faster and faster, then hit the direction and it would fly across the screen with its beam out. How that would actually work in melee though, I couldn't tell you.

6014 still hasn't (IMO) released a ship as devastating or fun  (other than the non-canon ISD) as any of the big behemoth ships like the Dreadnaught, Maurader, or Avatar.

Anybody find a ship comparable to the Foon-Foon Typhoon or the Baul ship?

Hahah, well that Iron Man's gun is the definition of going overboard, if something!!

Funny - some people have felt the exact opposite: that Foon-foon is pretty strong ship, because of its speed and the amount of damage the dervish attack deals. I actually lean a bit on this side too: It's easy to wipe out the zapsats from AI-controlled Chmmr and also the fighters from an AI-controlled ur-quan + kill the Quan itself. That's the reason I deducted its crew capacity from 20 to 12.

I haven't tried the FF against a skilled human player though so it's hard to say anything about that.

Did you mean the primary weapon would shoot the charge ball specifically as a ball? Or as a saber/beam?
'Another World' comes into mind (see the mega-lazer at 0:14)... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcD4KeYO30o&feature=related
Something like that could be fun, it would make the primary and secondary weapons more distinct from each other.
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dczanik
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Re: Project6014's new ships
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2011, 09:02:14 am »

I like the FF as a CHMMR counter.  It's a reason to pick it.  Another world. Wow. Haven't played that game in years! It still holds up really well. Yeah. Something like that would work.
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Kwayne
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Re: Project6014's new ships
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2011, 09:44:44 am »

Not all ships meant to be super strong, especially not the Foon-Foon.

It's a story thing. They use their tools in a way similar to how medieval peasants straightened their scythes when they gone rebel.
The Typhoon Sabre is an amplified mining laser, while the dervish is a desperate, risky tactic using a reconfigured Sabre.

As it is now, the Typhoon is very strong: I can level all larger ships with it, against Awesome AI, even with 12 crew (that's still 2 DN shots!)
The Sabre still seem to be purposefully designed weapon, that's why it's needed to tune it down by making the use of the dervish more risky and (a bit) less effective, so players will also use the normal Sabre which should be much more effective but less... constant. Making it "stutter" is a good thing because it adds a simple animation to it.
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Re: Project6014's new ships
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2011, 07:43:59 pm »

Sure. Not all ships are meant to be strong, but there should be a reason why I want to choose them.  I'd rather pick almost any other race over the FF. The only exception is the ZFP. They have a devastating tongue attack but I always get slaughtered before I can get close enough to use it  Roll Eyes

And it's not just a story thing. The Androsynth are supposed to be super advanced humans. But I like the Earth ship on my fleet better.  The Melnorme are supposed to be wildly ahead of humans in the story, yet they're nothing ultra powerful in actual melee.  Gameplay is king and trumps story.

That's just my opinion. But right now, there's nothing here that makes me want to pick these guys. I like guys like the Vux because he slows down other ships. He's a great ship to set them up so at the very least another ship can knock them down.  I can still inflict a lot of damage as a Shofixti. The Baul and Lurg feel too similar to me. Just defensive ships. You simply can't attack straight on with the Baul because the gas doesn't move forward.  There's some real fun in the FF ship. It's just not there yet. I feel the same with the Baul too.

The Lurg need work. The Lurg is probably the most irritating ship to play against. It makes for long drawn out battles. At least humans will get bored eventually. The AI doesn't.

So what I would like to know, is why I would ever want the FF in my fleet? I'd rather have any of the alternatives because the FF just feels too pathetic and weak.  Same with the Baul and Lurg. Certain ship battles are so one sided with the Baul, like Earthling vs. Baul.  Even on the idiot AI level the Earthling just eliminates my Baul ship completely. But maybe I'm just playing them wrong.  I'm not a melee expert.  I'd love to know what others think on these guys.

A weak ship can still have a great counter to a powerful ship.  A powerful counter to the CHMMR is to knock it's zapsats out. Then if the other guy chooses a CHMMR ship, I'll employ the same strategy as my Vux. Choose the FF to knock out the sats so another ship can take him down.  What frustrates me most about the FF is it feels like it's almost there. 

The Baul is fun to play, he's just not very effective.  Maybe if he moved quicker, or if the gas were to float towards the enemy ship it might work better.

My suggestions:
Lurg Prawn: Scrap it for something else. It's too similar to the Baul, and the Baul is just more fun.
FF:  Longer Battery, longer spin attack time. Hold button for bigger beam. Make the tapping of the primary beam even weaker. Maybe add a spin-up time for FF secondary.
Baul: Gas floats towards enemy. Make them faster.

It would be funny that if the FF primary beam charges too much, the ship just blows itself up.  Cheesy


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- Damon
Ur-Quan Masters HD Project leader/artist. Project 6014 Artist.  Like my art? Please check out some of my other artwork
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Re: Project6014's new ships
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2011, 08:19:47 pm »

By the Way. Welcome Kwayne! Finally created an account! Kwayne is one of 6014's artists. He did almost all the melee animation in a couple of weeks. That's insane! Chances are, if you see an HD bio-critter, it's his stuff.  He's an art machine.  Smiley  And yet, some of his best stuff won't be released until the full game.
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- Damon
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Re: Project6014's new ships
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2011, 12:14:29 am »

Hello everyone. I have the feeling I'm asking something really obvious, but how can I test these ships in the game? I played through the new demo, but can't find these ships/races anywhere in the game, also not available in Super Melee.
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dczanik
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Re: Project6014's new ships
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2011, 12:22:44 am »

Hello everyone. I have the feeling I'm asking something really obvious, but how can I test these ships in the game? I played through the new demo, but can't find these ships/races anywhere in the game, also not available in Super Melee.

Really? Anybody else having this trouble too?
Have you downloaded the latest Demo? We're talking about Project 6014 and not Ur-Quan Masters, right?

http://code.google.com/p/project6014/wiki/Downloads?tm=2

If you can, upload a screenshot so we can see where the problem may lay.
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- Damon
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Re: Project6014's new ships
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2011, 12:26:06 am »

Also the Foon-Foon is a White sphere-like oblong ship, the Baul is dual pointy red ship, and the Lurg Prawn looks like a space lobster.  Selecting a blank ship slot should show all the ships.
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- Damon
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Re: Project6014's new ships
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2011, 12:29:52 am »

Scratch that, I just hadn't played Super Melee in a loong time and didn't realize you need to press enter to see the rest of the available ships. Testing them now. They look good at least. Also while playing the demo, I didn't quite figure out what those bubbles from the Lurg Prawn actually do?
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