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Author Topic: Kickstarter?  (Read 19445 times)
dathinvaderzim
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #105 on: March 29, 2012, 01:53:21 am »

Looks like skipping everything after page three didn't matter much. Shall we count the flaws again?

If you guys weren't such assholes I would have helped you, even if I didn't directly have the experience even though I technically do, I know over 12 highly paid programmers and artists and a couple sound engineers and they tell me how they do things and why they keep their jobs.

So, this is a topic where Star Control fans are discussing whether the original creators of the series could apply for a kickstarter and if this kind of model could work for them. But somehow you still think that this is a thread about putting together a new team for applying for a kickstarter and making a sequel to content we don't own and can't use commercially. In practice this means that you're offering hypothetical help with something that no one has asked for which isn't legally possible even if there was some "we" that wanted to do it. Can you see how this sin't very useful in any form or fashion?

Quote
The star control series is practically done for unless the real creators want to revive it, and that's the fact.

Which is what everyone but you was discussing in this thread, could the original creators apply for this and would it make sense for them to use this model. However it isn't at all what you've been talking about.

Quote
Unless you guys put real effort and into the right things, it will just die down as it practically has already.

Again there's this weird assumption that you're talking to people who are all poised to apply for a kickstarter and eager to use those funds to make an illegal game that can't be sold. You're the only one who thinks that's what's going on though despite people telling you repeatedly that it isn't the case.

Quote
But since you guys (except for maybe a few people, but even some of the art I could make in a couple minutes) are too lazy to even check with people involved to see what's happening, it's just going to die.

So not only do you keep on the same course of arguing a completely different thing than others in the thread, you manage to claim that you're as good an artist as some nebulous entity who you think is working on this commercial sequel that this thread is about in your mind. Since such a thing doesn't exist we'll have to assume that you're actually trying to clumsily and incorrectly reference P6014 (which is not a commercial venture and is not applying for any money) and that you for some laughable reason think that you're as good an artist as zenzmurfy or dcanzik. Again of course without anything to back your words up.

Oh yeah because someone who actually had a job that important would definitely waste time on a game forum.

One of the cool thing about having a job is that it's only about 40-50 hours of a week containing 168 hours. That leaves plenty of times for eating, sleeping and leisure. But being employed by a company I'm sure you know that.

Or is this an another attempt at showing your base logic? "No one who posts here can have an important job, therefore you should believe me when I claim I have an important job as a game designer." Impeccable.

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And here's the thing too, I wasn't the only one planning on working on a game based off of this, other people are already working on it. Now how could I possibly know that?

Here's the thing, in order to prove my unverified claim I'll make another unverified claim. Because, you know, two wrongs make a right!

Topic discussions can easily change, and even if I did misunderstand people, it doesn't give them an excuse to be assholes. If there going to put all that effort just to be an asshole to me I'm going to do it right back.
I never said it was impossible for someone with a "job that helps the world" to spend all that time on here, but it's just not very likely because someone with that high of a pay or determination to help people is probably 99% likely to not waste time on this forum and have more of an actual life. If they have a high paying job with that kind of attitude, then they also could very well be dating someone and have a family.

Now how could I possibly know that?
This tells me that you're either not working for Human Head, or you're not very clever.

EDIT: Have you ever even played Star Control 2?

Your not very clever for thinking that I wasn't considering this website nor gossip.

What happens if someone involved simply claims they were not the ones who put it up? Then, even with a CC license, isn't it still illegal even according to your own posts? Handing out a free game with everything for free use seems too good to be true, there's are some thing that can go wrong.
Of course, this entire topic could have been avoided if people had just asked around in the first place and stated what they had found out.


I just looked at the text file titled "MANUAL" in the program files of star control 2, it says all rights are reserved and "Neither the Software nor the user manual may
be duplicated or copied for any reason." near the bottom.

It might be possible I'm missing something to this, but I'm going to be pissed if I'm not.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 02:12:54 am by dathinvaderzim » Logged
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #106 on: March 29, 2012, 02:36:26 am »

Topic discussions can easily change, and even if I did misunderstand people, it doesn't give them an excuse to be assholes. If there going to put all that effort just to be an asshole to me I'm going to do it right back.
I never said it was impossible for someone with a "job that helps the world" to spend all that time on here, but it's just not very likely because someone with that high of a pay or determination to help people is probably 99% likely to not waste time on this forum and have more of an actual life. If they have a high paying job with that kind of attitude, then they also could very well be dating someone and have a family.

What's this bullshit about "actual life"? This is a pathetic tactic you're using, trying to shame Luki, easily one of the best people in this community, into leaving it for a reason that no intelligent person would, just so you can avoid the fact that you have shown yourself to be an absolute moron in this topic.

But if we're going to use that logic, have you looked in a fucking mirror?! You've been posting bullshit in this topic much longer than Luki has been responding to your bullshit. Therefore, if you were telling the truth about yourself, i.e. you're a super-experienced, 1337 game developer dude, you would be, in your own words, "99% likely to not waste time on this forum and have more of an actual life". Of course, this is horse shit, but it's YOUR reasoning.

Your not very clever for thinking that I wasn't considering this website nor gossip.

You're not very clever for saying "your" (possessive form of "you") when you clearly mean "you're" (contraction of "you are").

What happens if someone involved simply claims they were not the ones who put it up? Then, even with a CC license, isn't it still illegal even according to your own posts?

Stop being stupid. If this were the case (and it isn't), it would be the person who unlawfully licensed it who would be in trouble, not the person who was lied to.

I just looked at the text file titled "MANUAL" in the program files of star control 2, it says all rights are reserved and "Neither the Software nor the user manual may
be duplicated or copied for any reason." near the bottom.

I'm not going to call you an idiot this time, mostly because I'm technically only guessing and I always make sure to show humility in situations like these (unlike you, evidently), but it seems to me that this is simply a legacy file. It is not included in the actual releases (at least, not the 0.7.0 Windows release).
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 02:38:43 am by onpon4 » Logged

dathinvaderzim
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #107 on: March 29, 2012, 02:57:54 am »

What's this bullshit about "actual life"? This is a pathetic tactic you're using, trying to shame Luki, easily one of the best people in this community, into leaving it for a reason that no intelligent person would, just so you can avoid the fact that you have shown yourself to be an absolute moron in this topic.

But if we're going to use that logic, have you looked in a fucking mirror?! You've been posting bullshit in this topic much longer than Luki has been responding to your bullshit. Therefore, if you were telling the truth about yourself, i.e. you're a super-experienced, 1337 game developer dude, you would be, in your own words, "99% likely to not waste time on this forum and have more of an actual life". Of course, this is horse shit, but it's YOUR reasoning.

Here's a news flash: this website isn't helping the world, or really anyone. I didn't say coming here brought shame to anyone or meant they have no life, that's you, I don't know how shameful you feel about wasting so much time playing these games, but that's not what I had stated. It's most likely that people who have that much of a life, or people who have such a high priority thing in their life wouldn't really even care about video games nor have the time for them. He could easily have a real job and a life, but I don't think it's as of high caliber as he makes it out to be.

You're not very clever for saying "your" (possessive form of "you") when you clearly mean "you're" (contraction of "you are").
So if I wasn't that clever, but you still understood what I was saying well enough to even correct a minor mistake?

Stop being stupid. If this were the case (and it isn't), it would be the person who unlawfully licensed it who would be in trouble, not the person who was lied to.
Nope, you'd still be in trouble, at least that's what my programmer friend told me. The creators could be sympathetic towards your situation, but you still broke the law by downloading and distributing illegal copies. Legally it wouldn't be much different than torrenting or buying stolen music from a friend.


I'm not going to call you an idiot this time, mostly because I'm technically only guessing and I always make sure to show humility in situations like these (unlike you, evidently), but it seems to me that this is simply a legacy file. It is not included in the actual releases (at least, not the 0.7.0 Windows release).

I'm pretty sure your above quotes are not humility. If you want me to be courteous to you, then don't be an asshole.
The same information could easily be in the original game files but under a different name. Better to check, or ask around.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 03:02:59 am by dathinvaderzim » Logged
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #108 on: March 29, 2012, 03:02:27 am »

The same information could easily be in the original game files but under a different name. Better to check, or ask around.

I just did check, as a matter of fact. That text is nowhere to be found anywhere in the latest official release of UQM. Stop making stuff up, you're not exactly helping your credibility.
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #109 on: March 29, 2012, 03:04:14 am »

The same information could easily be in the original game files but under a different name. Better to check, or ask around.

I just did check, as a matter of fact. That text is nowhere to be found anywhere in the latest official release of UQM. Stop making stuff up, you're not exactly helping your credibility.

I didn't make that text file up, and did you mean to say you checked for the text file called "MANUAL" or that you checked every single file for the words "All rights are reserved"? And did you check in an early version? Because you might have missed the point of what I said.

There's another text file I found called "README.txt", near the bottom it says similar things, but does not say specifically what belongs to who or what legal actions are applicable.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 03:09:10 am by dathinvaderzim » Logged
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #110 on: March 29, 2012, 03:13:44 am »

Neither of those two files exist anywhere in the official UQM source release (unless you're referring to 'README'), as a matter of fact, and none say anything about all rights being reserved (the file describing licensing says:)

Quote
The Ur-Quan Masters
    Copyright (C) 1992, 2002 Toys for Bob, Inc.

    This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
    it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
    the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
    (at your option) any later version.

    This program is distributed in the hope that it will be entertaining,
    but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
    MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
    GNU General Public License for more details.  A copy of the
    General Public License is included at the end of this document.

    The content -- voiceovers, dialogue, graphics, sounds, and music --
    are copyright (C) 1992, 1993, 2002 Toys for Bob, Inc. or their
    respective creators.  The content may be used freely under the
    terms of the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
    2.5 license (included below, and also available at
    http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/).  The content
    may also be copied freely as part of a distribution of The Ur-Quan
    Masters.

    The documentation -- excluding documentation that is part of the
    code or otherwise clearly governed by the preceding licenses --
    may be used freely under the terms of the Creative Commons
    Attribution 2.0 license (included below, and also available at
    http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/).

    <full text of licenses follows in original, not posted due to length>
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dathinvaderzim
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #111 on: March 29, 2012, 03:17:11 am »

Neither of those two files exist anywhere in the official UQM source release, as a matter of fact, and none say anything about all rights being reserved (the file describing licensing says:)

Quote
The Ur-Quan Masters
    Copyright (C) 1992, 2002 Toys for Bob, Inc.

    This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
    it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
    the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
    (at your option) any later version.

    This program is distributed in the hope that it will be entertaining,
    but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
    MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
    GNU General Public License for more details.  A copy of the
    General Public License is included at the end of this document.

    The content -- voiceovers, dialogue, graphics, sounds, and music --
    are copyright (C) 1992, 1993, 2002 Toys for Bob, Inc. or their
    respective creators.  The content may be used freely under the
    terms of the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
    2.5 license (included below, and also available at
    http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/).  The content
    may also be copied freely as part of a distribution of The Ur-Quan
    Masters.

    The documentation -- excluding documentation that is part of the
    code or otherwise clearly governed by the preceding licenses --
    may be used freely under the terms of the Creative Commons
    Attribution 2.0 license (included below, and also available at
    http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/).

    <full text of licenses follows in original, not posted due to length>

Do you have a link to the "source" release or original files? Because I'm pretty sure even other people said not every single thing is free, like the "Star Control 2" name for instance.
Also, how else would these files gotten onto the particular version I have and why? Or do you want me to take a screen shot?
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #112 on: March 29, 2012, 03:22:11 am »

Official UQM source archive of 0.7.0 is here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/sc2/files/UQM/0.7/uqm-0.7.0-source.tgz/download

AFAIK, only the trademark (i.e. the name 'Star Control') is owned by anyone other than Toys For Bob, the original authors of the game. Any copyrights that were not TFB's originally reverted to TFB upon Accolade defaulting on royalty payments, and TFB released a modified version of the original 3DO source code under the GNU General Public License, and all content (art, music, sound effects, and the rest) under CC-BY-SA 2.0 in 2002. But you knew all that already, or at least have been told that already.
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #113 on: March 29, 2012, 03:28:07 am »

So if I wasn't that clever, how come you still understood me even well enough to correct a minor mistake?

You can be intelligible without being clever, you know.

Nope, you'd still be in trouble, at least that's what my programmer friend told me. The creators could be sympathetic towards your situation, but you still broke the law by downloading and distributing illegal copies. Legally it wouldn't be much different than torrenting or buying stolen music from a friend.

You're right because your programmer friend said so? Hey, wanna know something? I'm a programmer, too! Come on, being a programmer does NOTHING to qualify you as a reliable source on how the law works.

I'm pretty sure your above quotes are not humility. If you want me to be curious to you, then don't be an asshole.

I said I'm humble when I'm only guessing or unsure, not that I've been humble throughout this topic.

As for being an "asshole", fair enough, but I haven't been a jerk to you this entire topic. I was ludicrously civil for quite some time. Up until page 6, to be precise. If you want me to be nice again, show some humility and stop repeating the same falsehoods you've been spewing. Educate yourself instead of pretending to be some kind of expert on something you know nothing about. If you can't do that, deal with it or GTFO.
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #114 on: March 29, 2012, 03:40:05 am »

So if I wasn't that clever, how come you still understood me even well enough to correct a minor mistake?

You can be intelligible without being clever, you know.

Nope, you'd still be in trouble, at least that's what my programmer friend told me. The creators could be sympathetic towards your situation, but you still broke the law by downloading and distributing illegal copies. Legally it wouldn't be much different than torrenting or buying stolen music from a friend.

You're right because your programmer friend said so? Hey, wanna know something? I'm a programmer, too! Come on, being a programmer does NOTHING to qualify you as a reliable source on how the law works.

I'm pretty sure your above quotes are not humility. If you want me to be curious to you, then don't be an asshole.

I said I'm humble when I'm only guessing or unsure, not that I've been humble throughout this topic.

As for being an "asshole", fair enough, but I haven't been a jerk to you this entire topic. I was ludicrously civil for quite some time. Up until page 6, to be precise. If you want me to be nice again, show some humility and stop repeating the same falsehoods you've been spewing. Educate yourself instead of pretending to be some kind of expert on something you know nothing about. If you can't do that, deal with it or GTFO.

Well, I would trust my programmer friend more than you because he knows literally every programming language and for his These for his Ph. D. in computer engineering he designed a program that can create games themselves through Darwinian evolution, he knows how the game industry works well enough to even teach it.
I'll take a screenshot and post it too you, and I will also call Toys or a company close to them tomorrow to see if I can make sure everything is free since I might want to re-use some of the coding instead of making engines from scratch for my own games.

I've been planning on making another version of star control for over 6 years, and I've gone through several drafts, and it really irritates me how I have all this knowledge about making games good particularly star control and yet I see this level of disrespect towards me.
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #115 on: March 29, 2012, 03:53:36 am »

Well, I would trust my programmer friend more than you because he knows literally every programming language and for his These for his Ph. D. in computer engineering he designed a program that can create games themselves through Darwinian evolution, he knows how the game industry works well enough to even teach it.

What in the holy hell does knowing "literally every programming language" (which is impossible, by the way) have to do with knowledge of law?

This magic dream program that can auto-generate games, which everyone would be talking about, by the way, would say nothing about the creator's knowledge of any law even if it existed.

As an aside, having a piece of paper from college says nothing about how good of a programmer you are. NOTHING.

But, hey, tell your programmer friend to contact me! Give him my E-mail address. It's onpon4@yahoo.com. If he's real, and he's really as good as you say he is, a discussion with him would be very interesting indeed.

I've been planning on making another version of star control for over 6 years, and I've gone through several drafts, and it really irritates me how I have all this knowledge about making games good particularly star control and yet I see this level of disrespect towards me.

More talk about how much amazing knowledge and experience you have without evidence. I ain't buying it. I'm 100% sure you're just a 12-year-old kid either trolling or trying to make himself look important. Your stupid belief that game ideas have spectacular value is strong evidence of that.
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #116 on: March 29, 2012, 03:59:03 am »

I will also call Toys or a company close to them tomorrow to see if I can make sure everything is free since I might want to re-use some of the coding instead of making engines from scratch for my own games.

You can't do this without also releasing your derivative work under the GNU GPL, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyleft.
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #117 on: March 29, 2012, 04:01:32 am »



What in the holy hell does knowing "literally every programming language" (which is impossible, by the way) have to do with knowledge of law?

This magic dream program that can auto-generate games, which everyone would be talking about, by the way, would say nothing about the creator's knowledge of any law even if it existed.

As an aside, having a piece of paper from college says nothing about how good of a programmer you are. NOTHING.

But, hey, tell your programmer friend to contact me! Give him my E-mail address. It's onpon4@yahoo.com. If he's real, and he's really as good as you say he is, a discussion with him would be very interesting indeed.
It means he has a lot of experience, and when you get a job at a game company, they tell you how the legal things work out. Instead of wasting my friends' time by having him talk to you, why don't you just get a job at a game company? They will make sure you understand the laws.
I've been planning on making another version of star control for over 6 years, and I've gone through several drafts, and it really irritates me how I have all this knowledge about making games good particularly star control and yet I see this level of disrespect towards me.

More talk about how much amazing knowledge and experience you have without evidence. I ain't buying it. I'm 100% sure you're just a 12-year-old kid either trolling or trying to make himself look important. Your stupid belief that game ideas have spectacular value is strong evidence of that.

At least some evidence should be the fact that I had posted things with in-depth knowledge about the gaming industry which if heavily researched or asked about, professionals would agree with.
People don't steal things that are valueless. People steal ideas, therefore they have to have value.

Here's a screen shot by the way.

http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o509/dathinvaderzim/sc2screenshot.jpg

I will also call Toys or a company close to them tomorrow to see if I can make sure everything is free since I might want to re-use some of the coding instead of making engines from scratch for my own games.

You can't do this without also releasing your derivative work under the GNU GPL, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyleft.


I'm not going to sell them game, but simply plan on getting money from sponsors putting a link to their site when the game is loading or etc. But, in case it can't work like that, that's why I'm going to call them.


By the way, most people who ARE real programmers do occasionally talk about programs that can make games, such as the Darwinian evolution one, but you need to know about programming to know about that.
Just because it's interesting that the speed of light is the same from all frames of reference due to the effects of the Lorenz transformation on events is interesting doesn't mean everyone is talking about it, because people need to have higher education in physics in order to know about that.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 04:07:42 am by dathinvaderzim » Logged
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #118 on: March 29, 2012, 04:10:46 am »

It means he has a lot of experience, and when you get a job at a game company, they tell you how the legal things work out. Instead of wasting my friends' time by having him talk to you, why don't you just get a job at a game company? They will make sure you understand the laws.

Oh, I don't need to learn the laws. I understand them perfectly well. It's you that don't. I was offering for your friend to contact me so he could vouch for your words being true, but I guess he doesn't exist.

At least some evidence should be the fact that I had posted things with in-depth knowledge about the gaming industry which if heavily researched or asked about, professionals would agree with.
People don't steal things that are valueless. People steal ideas, therefore they have to have value.

Simple Google searches reveal that no one considers game ideas to be valuable, and no one "steals" ideas.

Why don't I play your game? I am a very smart scientist! My proof is that I know that stars are made of yellow water, which you will find experts agree with me on!


I can see from your screenshot that THAT'S THE ORIGINAL PC VERSION OF STAR CONTROL II, YOU BLITHERING IDIOT!
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #119 on: March 29, 2012, 04:22:20 am »



Oh, I don't need to learn the laws. I understand them perfectly well. It's you that don't. I was offering for your friend to contact me so he could vouch for your words being true, but I guess he doesn't exist.
This is my own personal issue and I'm not going to drag him into this. If you choose to believe he doesn't exists, that's not really my problem, nor his.

At least some evidence should be the fact that I had posted things with in-depth knowledge about the gaming industry which if heavily researched or asked about, professionals would agree with.
People don't steal things that are valueless. People steal ideas, therefore they have to have value.

Simple Google searches reveal that no one considers game ideas to be valuable, and no one "steals" ideas.
Ideas don't have value in the sense that they don't make money, they don't have physical value that translates into money, but since when is value not arbitrary anyway? Ideas are valuable in that they have the potential to make physical money. I'ts kind of like how light does have mass, but it's not real mass, it's relative mass.

Why don't I play your game? I am a very smart scientist! My proof is that I know that stars are made of yellow water, which you will find experts agree with me on!
The problem with "stars are made of yellow water" isn't very in-depth at all, and you wouldn't need to know any physics in order to guess that.



I can see from your screenshot that THAT'S THE ORIGINAL PC VERSION OF STAR CONTROL II, YOU BLITHERING IDIOT!
Then I guess I can't copy coding from it....and since all the later versions use the same game engines, I can't copy coding from those either.

Besides, I repeatedly asked for someone to post a link to this "source release", which no one has done.

If the thing I have is the original star control which it technically isn't, it's a later version, then according to the text files I see there, I should not be able to use the game engines for free. the "Ur-Quan Masters" uses the same game engines from this game, so you shouldn't be able to re-use them or alter them.

If I can remember correctly, someone who isn't me said even if someone changes their mind about a license, it still applies. So even if the people who made it "changed their minds", I'm still staring at this file that says otherwise, unless they maybe paid some money to make it free and paid the money to legally own all the licenses, which it seems they haven't if there's still that delema with the logo.

If however, project 6014 does not re-use these engines, then there shouldn't be as much of a problem.


Don't worry though, I'm going to call them tomorrow, or someone at least.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 04:32:26 am by dathinvaderzim » Logged
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