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News: Celebrating 30 years of Star Control 2 - The Ur-Quan Masters

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Author Topic: Kickstarter?  (Read 19871 times)
onpon4
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2012, 07:05:58 pm »

Maybe the people who you trust to "design" the star control mod should be people like Celtic, but I know how the business works because I'm in that business.
I really don't think you want to have me say "I told you so" when my company finishes a successful game which can easily get a sponsorship for over 5,000 dollars that I can link to just for it looking good, and 5,000 isn't even optimistic for a very good flash game and we aren't even only working on flash games. There's people who have salaries of over 50,000 dollars off this whole flash industry who aren't even particularly famous in any way. I don't have a link specifically to what I worked, partly because I never needed to and partly because human head has copyright on all the art and coding, all I can say right now is the fact that I know how these things means I have some experiences, I don't know how else I could know these things because google certainly doesn't give you all this.

I'll say one more thing about game ideas; take a look at this article:

http://www.alanemrich.com/Writing_Archive_pages/Game_idea_value.htm

There are many others like this one.

There is a high probability you will have to pay a large sum of money for licensing, and since it may be illegal to make a product you are currently working on, I would suggest directing kickstarter money into buying licensing if you investigate that far rather than quitting your job and getting sued. It's a small chance you would get sued only this far into the project, especially considering there's under 3,000 members.

Project 6014 is perfectly legal. This should be easy for you to understand if you're as experienced as you're making yourself out to be. If you're not talking about P6014, what's with your mix-up of pronouns?
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dathinvaderzim
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2012, 07:30:19 pm »

You think using darth vader and the star control logo is legal? Maybe it's not a major offense, but celtic will have trouble publishing it with those things in it, unless he has the proper licensing.
Besides, whats the point of the link you posted? People have ideas, those ideas aren't value-less, people just never put the work into making them a reality, that's it. Companies do go around to sites like kick-starter and possibly like the one you posted just to look for ideas every-so-often anyway.
What about the sound effects too? Maybe the coding is free, but if the sounds are separate wave or mp3 files which are not generated by engines within the coding of the game, that's another problem.

Start by asking everyone involved in making the game, that's the best step.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2012, 07:55:40 pm by dathinvaderzim » Logged
Kwayne
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2012, 07:56:27 pm »

Maybe the people who you trust to "design" the star control mod should be people like Celtic, but I know how the business works because I'm in that business.

I know how business works better because God told me, and I can give you just as much evidence about this fact than you can to me, and I have just as valid excuse not to give out any evidence as you have. You don't want me to say "I told you" when you are tortured in Hell while I'll be in Heaven and send you a picture of my 47 virgins and my 50,000 dollars.

No, I don't trust Cedric6014 to design our mod, he's one of the authority guys and I do as they say or I'm out. However I would show P6014 to PR3 and FF and let them say some last words about the project before we release it. Even then there is little to no hope for P6014 to become canon, because for a true Star Control sequel the participation of Paul Reiche III is a requirement until he dies (and don't leave a worthy successor behind). He can announce a new Star Control game because he owns everything except the "Star Control" name. The open source version is called "The Ur-Quan Masters" already, P6014 is made from the open-source, so what's your point? Who cares about the "Star Control" name? P6014 doesn't use it.
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onpon4
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #48 on: March 17, 2012, 08:12:11 pm »

What about the sound effects too? Maybe the coding is free, but if the sounds are separate wave or mp3 files which are not generated by engines within the coding of the game, that's another problem.

As has already been mentioned, all the UQM content (which includes all SC2 content except the 3DO videos) is available under a version of CC-BY-NC (might be CC-BY-NC-SA, I'm not sure). Meaning: they are free to use and make derivative works for non-commercial purposes.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 01:22:30 am by onpon4 » Logged

dathinvaderzim
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2012, 09:36:01 pm »

Ok, so if everything you guys is saying is true, then the only things that need to happen is someone needs to ask around to see what happening which is what I've been saying this WHOLE TIME, and possibly pay for licensing for the name and a few art pieces, which is what you'd use kickstarter for. Can anyone find any flaw in that? Because I really don't see what you guys are so confused about. Every time i try to suggest something, you say there's something wrong with it which seems unclear, so then I try to change it, and still there's something wrong with it which isn't even directly pointed out.
Does anyone think it's a bad idea to ask everyone what's going on with the project and use kick starter to pay for licensing? ANd since you might need to use kickstarter, I have some advice for that, which is to try and be careful, because evidently that fred and reiche duo doesn't have enough time or resources right now to make it, or they are in a contract with a company they work for where they can't make outside games and don't want to lose their jobs.
Also, I don't see the connection between god. The only way I could know what I said I knew is if I had experience because you can't find it on google and probably not in many books, that's it. It all lines up with reality, you can ask human-head yourself if they experienced turmoil and temporarily suspended many employees and you will find the answer is yes. That is, if you really think I'm making everything up. Besides, some of what I'm saying such as with kickstarter doesn't require experience to know, it's just logical that the idea could be stolen or then if your not deceptive enough that it won't get many donations.

My advice to ask around even if you don't want to just so you can make sure, and you may have to pay a large sum of money for some licensing to keep some of the original things, that's my advice, take it or leave it, I'm done with this topic.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2012, 10:07:32 pm by dathinvaderzim » Logged
Lukipela
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2012, 10:27:07 pm »

Well this is an unforeseen derail. Zim, you might want to consider that not knowing how the licenses, who actually owns what material, hat companies are involved and the names of the people involved does actually make your argument a fair bit weaker. Reading up a bit before trying to argue questions like that might not be a bad idea. You're like an American lecturing Europeans on how the metric system works, and that generally doesn't end well.

Anyway, going back to the original topic about kickstarters, I'll just copy paste my answer from the SCDB here as well.

Quote
I think the main problem with this is that TFB aren't just two young guys anymore. I mean, they're two grown men with families to provide for and employees that they are responsible for. I doubt their current employer would let them just take time off to develop a competing product.

And if they do quit, then what? Beyond whatever financial hot water they land themselves as well their employees in, what happens when they finish a game that is graphically primitive by todays standards? Even if they manage to make some money, how long before it runs out? And then what? Trying to find work with another studio with a rep like that might be tricky.

I would love to see a sequel, but not at the expense of those who make it.
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dathinvaderzim
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2012, 10:38:35 pm »

Well this is an unforeseen derail. Zim, you might want to consider that not knowing how the licenses, who actually owns what material, hat companies are involved and the names of the people involved does actually make your argument a fair bit weaker. Reading up a bit before trying to argue questions like that might not be a bad idea. You're like an American lecturing Europeans on how the metric system works, and that generally doesn't end well.
I can see how that works in debates, but logic is still logic, 1+1=2 no matter what, it shouldn't matter if I knew the company that owned it pre-hand or not because any company that owns something is something you'd have to buy licensing from, and it's not hard to see that.
(P.S. I'm not debating about kickstarter itself, I'm debating about debates, so no smart-alic responses)
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2012, 11:09:54 pm »

Actually very good idea. With just one problem - they need to be given the time free of other development. Quite possible it could really generate the funds and thus show Activision true interest (and financial potential) in true SC3.

It's true that their schedule is probably fully booked with the skylander sequal...
Eh, you're looking at this wrong. A new Star Control would need a team of like what? 10 people maybe? Toys for Bob has 75 people. They get the money up front at Kickstarter, they can hire a few new people and have their pick of who they want to work on it. It's not like it would ever be their only/primary project.

Alternately they could get someone else to develop it with them. Maybe Greg Johnson's HumaNature Studio would be appropriate. I don't know if their contracts allow them to do side projects like that, but just a thought.
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2012, 11:40:17 pm »

I can see how that works in debates, but logic is still logic, 1+1=2 no matter what, it shouldn't matter if I knew the company that owned it pre-hand or not because any company that owns something is something you'd have to buy licensing from, and it's not hard to see that.
(P.S. I'm not debating about kickstarter itself, I'm debating about debates, so no smart-alic responses)

You're comparing apples to oranges here. Your arguments in this case are more like stating X+Y=2 without knowing the values of either X or Y.
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #54 on: March 18, 2012, 04:30:38 pm »

Also, I don't see the connection between god. The only way I could know what I said I knew is if I had experience because you can't find it on google and probably not in many books, that's it.

Your claim of validity comes from your supposed connection to a XY company of people who are in the business, which we should believe because you supposedly know things we couldn't verify ourselves. It's just as silly as me claiming that my knowledge is better than yours because an invisible entity told me, whose existence nobody -- you included -- could verify. It's not simply argument from authority -- which is by itself a logical fallacy -- but argument from unverifiable authority -- which is then also a fine example of intellectual dishonesty. On top of that, for some reason you demand a community well infomed about the subject to accept whatever your superficial perception of generalized "logic" dictates as the capital Truth, while you constantly refuse to do the honest thing and do your research.
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dathinvaderzim
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #55 on: March 18, 2012, 06:29:21 pm »

You have the capability of verifying information without google. You can try looking up copyright laws in books or forums and asking human-head yourself.
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #56 on: March 18, 2012, 07:15:48 pm »

Beyond whatever financial hot water they land themselves as well their employees in, what happens when they finish a game that is graphically primitive by todays standards?
Who says the hypothetical new Star Control would be graphically primitive by today's standards?
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #57 on: March 18, 2012, 07:32:48 pm »

I don't doubt that.

But then if I have the ability to verify the information then you can as well, which invalidates your claim that your mere knowledge is proof of your involvement with the company, because on that basis anybody could make the exact same claim. I could ask for your name as a reference, however every game has credits lists anyone can freely choose from, so that method is also unreliable. Let's face it: on this forum all you are is a fake name, and you can't prove your real identity reliably, therefore your sense of validity based on your claim of identity is meaningless.

All I want to say that whoever you are doesn't matter here, no real need to look it up. The guys here know the legal status of both the Star Control trademark, the Ur-Quan Masters project and Project 6014, in fact they know it better than you do, so if you want to argue with them about this you might want to get informed before you apply some arbitrary generalization like
Quote
any company that owns something is something you'd have to buy licensing from.

Beyond whatever financial hot water they land themselves as well their employees in, what happens when they finish a game that is graphically primitive by todays standards?
Who says the hypothetical new Star Control would be graphically primitive by today's standards?

I'd say there is no such thing as "graphically primitive", only shades between good and bad quality.
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #58 on: March 18, 2012, 08:30:18 pm »

I can see how that works in debates, but logic is still logic, 1+1=2 no matter what, it shouldn't matter if I knew the company that owned it pre-hand or not because any company that owns something is something you'd have to buy licensing from, and it's not hard to see that.

But your logic is flawed dude. You're like a guy on the Xbox-live forums telling everyone that Half-Life can't be remade on their playstation network because Microprose still owns the rights to Wii controllers. And then when people tell you it doesn't work like that you just handwave, tell us you're in the game business and that you know what you're doing and why is eveone being so picky. It's not 1+1= 2 it's x^3+5-bz = sin(3). You're making incorrect arguments because of a flawed fact base, and without correct facts you rest your logical conclusion on faulty premises. Or logically, you're doing hexadecimal mathematics on a binary system.

Eh, you're looking at this wrong. A new Star Control would need a team of like what? 10 people maybe? Toys for Bob has 75 people. They get the money up front at Kickstarter, they can hire a few new people and have their pick of who they want to work on it. It's not like it would ever be their only/primary project.

Alternately they could get someone else to develop it with them. Maybe Greg Johnson's HumaNature Studio would be appropriate. I don't know if their contracts allow them to do side projects like that, but just a thought.

I don't think that's much of an option as they aren't an independently owned studio. If they were, they could decide what to work on and how many people to put on it. Sicne they aren't, the people who pay their bills get to decide what they work on. And they want work on the most profitable of things.

I'd say there is no such thing as "graphically primitive", only shades between good and bad quality.

Eh, I suppose I should have specified that I meant primitive compared to today's standards. Star Control 2 certainly has some high quality graphics considering the format and all, but I would assume that anyone who has grown up with Half-Life 2 and the likes would consider it a little old-fashioned, like we look at pong and space invaders.

And my reason for mentioning it at all is that even with that paltry kickstarter, there's no way TFB is going to be able to churn out ME3 level graphics without a lot more resources than the kickstarter brings.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 08:53:44 pm by Lukipela » Logged

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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #59 on: March 18, 2012, 10:04:46 pm »

I'd say there is no such thing as "graphically primitive", only shades between good and bad quality.

Star Control II is graphically primitive because of:

  • Low resolution
  • No lip-synching
  • Only 16 ship angles

Graphically primitive doesn't make a game bad (heck, doesn't even make the graphics bad), but it does make it look old ("retro", if you prefer). Of course, though, SC2 is old, and it's plain silly to assume that a sequel made today would be as graphically primitive as SC2.
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