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News: Celebrating 30 years of Star Control 2 - The Ur-Quan Masters

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Author Topic: Kickstarter?  (Read 19814 times)
CelticMinstrel
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #60 on: March 18, 2012, 10:10:13 pm »

Yeah, even if they were to reuse the same engine I'd assume they would do things like increasing the resolution and animation frame counts and stuff like that, and that's probably sufficient to take it out of the "graphically primitive" area.

Of course, they'd be more likely to make a new engine, I think.
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #61 on: March 18, 2012, 11:05:54 pm »

Yeah, even if they were to reuse the same engine I'd assume they would do things like increasing the resolution and animation frame counts and stuff like that, and that's probably sufficient to take it out of the "graphically primitive" area.

Of course, they'd be more likely to make a new engine, I think.

p6014's done this already. The hires modes aren't 'graphically primitive' (only serious problem is the 16 angle limitation), and it was done by about a half-dozen programmers and artists working with a 20-year-old engine in their spare time.
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CelticMinstrel
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #62 on: March 19, 2012, 11:10:53 pm »

I realize P6014 has already done it. Tongue
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dathinvaderzim
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #63 on: March 20, 2012, 03:07:30 am »



But your logic is flawed dude. You're like a guy on the Xbox-live forums telling everyone that Half-Life can't be remade on their playstation network because Microprose still owns the rights to Wii controllers. And then when people tell you it doesn't work like that you just handwave, tell us you're in the game business and that you know what you're doing and why is eveone being so picky. It's not 1+1= 2 it's x^3+5-bz = sin(3). You're making incorrect arguments because of a flawed fact base, and without correct facts you rest your logical conclusion on faulty premises. Or logically, you're doing hexadecimal mathematics on a binary system.



I fail to see how my advice is flawed. Perhaps some of the facts on the history of star control were wrong, but what I had been saying wasn't illogical, and I did not base my advice directly off of the history of the game, I based advice off of what I experience I have doing the same thing. That experience also wasn't coming just from me, but from other people whom I have also worked with. In their own troubles, they also had to figure out solutions to the same problems, and I tried passing on what had been learned.
There likely are legal issues that need to be solved project 6014 be fully published, but then again, it's possible it doesn't need to be...
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 03:13:43 am by dathinvaderzim » Logged
Kwayne
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #64 on: March 22, 2012, 09:47:46 pm »

Your advice is flawed because it's based on the false conviction that your arbitrary "logic" is a viable substitute of actual information that is needed to make a sane point regarding the legal issues behind any Star Control related product.

Project 6014, when completed, will be released according to the combined terms of GPL (code) and CC-BY-NC-SA (content). It seems both grant us the ability to produce derivative works but doesn't allow us to make profit out of it, which never -- as far as I know -- was our intention.
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #65 on: March 22, 2012, 10:28:18 pm »

GPL (code) and CC-BY-NC-SA (content). It seems both [...] doesn't allow us to make profit out of it

To clarify: that particular statement only applies to CC-BY-NC-SA (content), not the GPL. I'm guessing you know this, Kwayne (based on your wording; using "doesn't" instead of "don't"), but your wording makes it sound like the "no profit" part applies to both licenses. Wink
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dathinvaderzim
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #66 on: March 22, 2012, 10:48:04 pm »

Your advice is flawed because it's based on the false conviction that your arbitrary "logic" is a viable substitute of actual information that is needed to make a sane point regarding the legal issues behind any Star Control related product.

Project 6014, when completed, will be released according to the combined terms of GPL (code) and CC-BY-NC-SA (content). It seems both grant us the ability to produce derivative works but doesn't allow us to make profit out of it, which never -- as far as I know -- was our intention.
I'm pretty sure what I had said was to ask around, and if there was licensing issues then you use kickstarter, which to me does not sound illogical.
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Kwayne
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #67 on: March 23, 2012, 08:03:59 am »

GPL (code) and CC-BY-NC-SA (content). It seems both [...] doesn't allow us to make profit out of it
To clarify: that particular statement only applies to CC-BY-NC-SA (content), not the GPL. I'm guessing you know this, Kwayne (based on your wording; using "doesn't" instead of "don't"), but your wording makes it sound like the "no profit" part applies to both licenses. Wink

Good catch! Since my concerns are revolving around creative commons, I wasn't sure about GPL, that's why I referred to the "combined" terms of both licenses. What's important is if one makes a Star Control game with all the characters, the only people who could make money out of it is TfB. I wonder though: when PR3 bought back the content license, did it include the SC3 races as derived work? Might be worth asking.

@dath: nobody said that being careful and asking around by itself is a bad advice, however your explanation of why we should do it is hard to be taken seriously.
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dathinvaderzim
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #68 on: March 23, 2012, 10:49:02 pm »


@dath: nobody said that being careful and asking around by itself is a bad advice, however your explanation of why we should do it is hard to be taken seriously.

In a completely unrelated topic, a week ago my friend literally looked up many songs under the creative commons attributions license to use for our game, and he personally emailed all the creators and told them what we wanted to use their songs for just to be sure, and despite the fact that they put up the song under a creative commons attributions  license but STILL some of them said that we would not be able to use their songs and some said we would have to pay them. I think it's worth it. Because of this we know specifically what songs in our list that we can't use.
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onpon4
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #69 on: March 24, 2012, 01:40:33 am »

In a completely unrelated topic, a week ago my friend literally looked up many songs under the creative commons attributions license to use for our game, and he personally emailed all the creators and told them what we wanted to use their songs for just to be sure, and despite the fact that they put up the song under a creative commons attributions  license but STILL some of them said that we would not be able to use their songs and some said we would have to pay them. I think it's worth it. Because of this we know specifically what songs in our list that we can't use.

I'm sorry, do you really have so little idea of how copyright works that you're honestly falling for that? If you have obtained a work under the CC-BY license, you get to use it under those terms. The copyright owner has no power at that point to turn around and say "no" or "you have to pay us first".
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dathinvaderzim
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #70 on: March 24, 2012, 02:36:16 am »

In a completely unrelated topic, a week ago my friend literally looked up many songs under the creative commons attributions license to use for our game, and he personally emailed all the creators and told them what we wanted to use their songs for just to be sure, and despite the fact that they put up the song under a creative commons attributions  license but STILL some of them said that we would not be able to use their songs and some said we would have to pay them. I think it's worth it. Because of this we know specifically what songs in our list that we can't use.

I'm sorry, do you really have so little idea of how copyright works that you're honestly falling for that? If you have obtained a work under the CC-BY license, you get to use it under those terms. The copyright owner has no power at that point to turn around and say "no" or "you have to pay us first".

Fall for what? You think I'm lying? Are you arguing that the owner has no power over what they have created just because they posted some random thing on an unofficial website (kind of reminds me of something else...)
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onpon4
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #71 on: March 24, 2012, 03:05:44 am »

Fall for what? [...] Are you arguing that the owner has no power over what they have created just because they posted some random thing on an unofficial website (kind of reminds me of something else...)

Erm, yeah, that's kind of how it works. It's kind of, you know, a legally binding agreement. They have already released the work and agreed to allow you (and anyone else) to use the work under the terms set by the respective license.
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Death 999
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #72 on: March 24, 2012, 11:00:52 am »

There is no CC license where it says 'if the author says so' because you could always do that even if the work was 'all rights reserved'.

It's not for nothing that major corporations use restrictive terms rather than CC licenses!
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dathinvaderzim
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #73 on: March 24, 2012, 10:55:40 pm »

Fall for what? [...] Are you arguing that the owner has no power over what they have created just because they posted some random thing on an unofficial website (kind of reminds me of something else...)

Erm, yeah, that's kind of how it works. It's kind of, you know, a legally binding agreement. They have already released the work and agreed to allow you (and anyone else) to use the work under the terms set by the respective license.

So if that's true, I should be able to upload someone else's song like Eminem or Lady-Gaga under a CC license and other people would be able to use it for free, just because some website says so.
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CelticMinstrel
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Re: Kickstarter?
« Reply #74 on: March 25, 2012, 12:26:46 am »

No no no no, that only works if the author uploads it and slaps the CC label on it. If you upload it and try to slap the CC label on it, that's not allowed.
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