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Author Topic: Are there new ships to download?  (Read 7086 times)
Lukipela
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Re: Are there new ships to download?
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2012, 08:42:46 pm »
Quote from: oldlaptop on March 18, 2012, 09:36:25 pm
Well, the Ilwrath *are* defined as a bunch of one-dimensional bad guys, by their own proud admission! Of course, they're more of a parody of the cookie-cutter Evil Alien Race than anything else.

Yeah except for the whole "Well doing Evil is considered Good in our culture" bit which doesn't actually make them evil. Just very very confused in a lethal way.
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Death 999
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Re: Are there new ships to download?
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2012, 09:24:58 pm »
I think the obsession with torture qualifies them as evil.

http://lesswrong.com/lw/mm/the_fallacy_of_gray/
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Lukipela
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Re: Are there new ships to download?
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2012, 09:51:56 pm »
Good point and interesting blog. Thanks for the link!
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dathinvaderzim
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Re: Are there new ships to download?
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2012, 03:08:19 am »
Quote from: Death 999 on March 19, 2012, 09:24:58 pm
I think the obsession with torture qualifies them as evil.

http://lesswrong.com/lw/mm/the_fallacy_of_gray/

Well what if they are naturally that way? It's not really evil, it's just how they naturally live, a part of nature of you will. Even if they weren't naturally that way, it's still something their society decides is the right way to live.
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oldlaptop
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Re: Are there new ships to download?
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2012, 04:35:56 am »
Just because a society decides something is right doesn't make it good. Assorted Earth cultures have 'decided' at different points in history that slavery, cannibalism, torture, human sacrifice, and other adorable practices are 'right', but I'm pretty sure most people would call that evil.
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Death 999
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Re: Are there new ships to download?
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2012, 01:03:53 pm »
Moreover, I think there is an objectively defineable system of metaethics, and every valid system of ethics that can be constructed from that system will decry gleefully torturing innocents.
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dathinvaderzim
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Re: Are there new ships to download?
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2012, 01:15:34 pm »
Quote from: oldlaptop on March 20, 2012, 04:35:56 am
Just because a society decides something is right doesn't make it good. Assorted Earth cultures have 'decided' at different points in history that slavery, cannibalism, torture, human sacrifice, and other adorable practices are 'right', but I'm pretty sure most people would call that evil.

Well technically working isn't "good" because it sues up vast amounts of your time and energy and causes stress. Obviously their fine with how their society works. There's no universal "right" thing, much like how there's no universal time.
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JudgeYohance
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Re: Are there new ships to download?
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2012, 03:22:55 am »
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Well technically working isn't "good" because it sues up vast amounts of your time and energy and causes stress. Obviously their fine with how their society works. There's no universal "right" thing, much like how there's no universal time.

There is however, a Universal "Gun"thing that I can happily use to spread my universal idea of "Destruction"  throughout the Ilwrath's Universal idea of "living" as to further perpetuate my idea of making them universally "dead"  Grin

Way I see it, the universe smiles upon me  Cool
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CelticMinstrel
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Re: Are there new ships to download?
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2012, 04:05:57 pm »
Quote from: Death 999 on March 19, 2012, 09:24:58 pm
I think the obsession with torture qualifies them as evil.

http://lesswrong.com/lw/mm/the_fallacy_of_gray/
Not sure on that one. They seem to be torturing because they feel it's the right thing to do, which certainly isn't good, but may not be evil either.

As for your fallacy link... that was interesting to read. I don't think I'm doing that though. I'm not denying that what the Ilwrath or the Ur-Quan or the Kohr-Ah do is dark; I'm merely saying it's not black. Perhaps it's not a useful thing to say, though (it's kinda the opposite of saying "But it's not perfect", I guess). I dunno.
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dathinvaderzim
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Re: Are there new ships to download?
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2012, 12:47:31 am »
Quote from: JudgeYohance on March 21, 2012, 03:22:55 am
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Well technically working isn't "good" because it sues up vast amounts of your time and energy and causes stress. Obviously their fine with how their society works. There's no universal "right" thing, much like how there's no universal time.

There is however, a Universal "Gun"thing that I can happily use to spread my universal idea of "Destruction"  throughout the Ilwrath's Universal idea of "living" as to further perpetuate my idea of making them universally "dead"  Grin

Way I see it, the universe smiles upon me  Cool

Well what if some species don't think death is bad, like those little furry guys from the failed star control 3?
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Kwayne
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Re: Are there new ships to download?
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2012, 06:56:22 pm »
Quote from: CelticMinstrel on March 21, 2012, 04:05:57 pm
Not sure on that one. They seem to be torturing because they feel it's the right thing to do, which certainly isn't good, but may not be evil either.

I thought the Ilwrath commit deeds that are evil by their own standards. They're religious zealots, obsessed with the thought that they must be evil -- as it is the demand of Dogar and Kazon -- so they're stubbornly refusing to admit the paradoxical nature of their own statement "we are evil!"
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CelticMinstrel
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Re: Are there new ships to download?
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2012, 07:20:05 pm »
Quote from: dathinvaderzim on March 22, 2012, 12:47:31 am
Well what if some species don't think death is bad, like those little furry guys from the failed star control 3?
I would imagine that a species which doesn't think death is bad has a very good chance of dying out. I have no idea who the "little furry guys" are.
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Kwayne
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Re: Are there new ships to download?
« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2012, 08:08:07 pm »
Quote from: Wikipedia
The Harika & Yorn evolved as a symbiotic relationship with the warlike reptilian Harika eating the Yorn which serves to control the Yorn's population numbers. They also gain the advice of their somewhat more diplomaticly minded food. The Yorn resemble Star Trek tribbles and as such would not be capable of a technological society on their own; the Harika grant them this chance.

In this case consuming an other sentient being -- with it's consent -- is beneficial to the survival and well being of both species. I'd call it necessary evil.
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Re: Are there new ships to download?
« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2012, 05:16:53 pm »
Back to the Lurg a bit:

Quote from: dathinvaderzim on March 17, 2012, 10:06:25 pm
[...] what about the Lurg genetically engineering a ship just so it can fight ...
As I know the Lurg Prawn is an animal (in a classical sense) made into a military vessel. Repurposing an other lifeform in itself is either not necessarily evil or a necessary evil. Probably Lurgs use nastier methods than humans who breed horses or war elephants for military use, cows to provide more milk and more meat, dogs to make them specialized for different tasks. All the species we deliberately altered have a better chance of survival solely because we need them. Of course we slaughter some of them without a second thought but we also keep their population on a level that we need, which is safer than the odds for tutles whose population is declining because generally we don't consider their survival beneficial to ours, so leaving plastic garbage on sea shores just slips our minds every now and then.

Quote from: dathinvaderzim on March 17, 2012, 10:06:25 pm
... or that they said that the human race means nothing to them?
An honest statement. Should they have high opinions on us? Why?
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dathinvaderzim
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Re: Are there new ships to download?
« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2012, 09:41:29 pm »
Quote from: Kwayne on March 25, 2012, 05:16:53 pm

An honest statement. Should they have high opinions on us? Why?

Well it qualifies as a disregard for life and an entire species then, doesn't it? It seems like that would be the case top if they try to genetically engineer things to be ships. Also, why not have high praise? Without us who else would have went around the galaxy and eventually defeat the ur-quan and free many races?
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