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Author Topic: A Melee Q&A  (Read 1595 times)
Venkman
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A Melee Q&A
« on: April 06, 2012, 06:07:44 am »

I see a lot of potential in the Umgah, and not just because the AI is sometimes TOO good at it. It seems like a ship with a lot of options for only 7 points, as long as you know what you're doing (and you're not fighting an Utwig or an Orz spamming marines at your little green ass.)

Problem is I DON'T know what I'm doing. Not with the Umgah, at least. I've pulled off a cool win or two by using my back-pedal to slam into my opponent at an angle, cue-balling them off screen and then into my static cone-O-death.

But so far, that's about the only real tactic I've got and to be honest, it's not terribly reliable.

You guys got any suggestions, tips, and/or tricks? If so, please post them below...
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 03:34:36 am by Venkman » Logged
Mijin
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Re: "Umgah-Cha Bitch!" - a Melee Guide to the Umgah (Hopefully)
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2012, 01:04:12 pm »

The Umgah certainly shouldn't be underestimated, and I agree that the AI plays very well with it.
But ultimately it's a slow ship (normally) with little crew. Even if you were skillfull enough to consistently use the shunt to get near the faster ships, you're very vulnerable doing this and one slight mistake, and it's over. In terms of cheap ships that can rack up kills I'd take thraddash any day of the week.

Also, you mentioned the Orz. The Umgah is one of the few ships that doesn't have to fear the Orz soldiers IMO.

As an aside, you wonder why the Umgah didn't use whatever technology they use for the reverse shunt to have a much more useful forward shunt. But I guess they're jokers...
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 02:52:08 pm by Mijin » Logged
Venkman
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Re: A Melee Guide to the Thraddash (Hopefully)
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2012, 10:19:19 pm »

Also, you mentioned the Orz. The Umgah is one of the few ships that doesn't have to fear the Orz soldiers IMO.

I chose that example mainly because when I'm playing Umgah against the AI, right when the Orz comes out he usually starts spamming marines and I end up wasting my entire battery backpedaling while covering them whith the Umgah's attack which (because of it's short range) leaves very little room for error while you're trying to keep each marine inside your static cone long enough to kill them.

And if more than one marine does manage to slip through, the Umgah is usually done for. Still, you're right about him being too slow, that's for sure. If the turning was a little faster, it wouldn't be such an issue. Then again, if the Umgah's turning was better, he'd probably be a little OP, at least at a cost of 7.

Either way, I totally agree about the Thraddash being the best of the cheap ships. IMO, it's one of the best ships period and hands-down the most fun to play.

Honestly, if there's any ship I'd REALLY like to compile a guide for, it's the Thraddash because they have a very versatile ship that I use a lot and I'd love to hear other people's tactics.

Know what? ::quickly edits title:: ...Let's try it. Mijin, you seem like a pretty knowledgeable dude. You have any Thraddash tactics you'd like to share with the class?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 10:22:44 pm by Venkman » Logged
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Re: A Melee Guide to the Thraddash (Hopefully)
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2012, 10:35:13 pm »

The veterans say Thraddash, used properly, is the most broken and boring ship in the game, and it's easy to see why: all you need to do is keep your distance while firing the peashooter for hours on end.
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Venkman
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Re: A Melee Guide to the Thraddash (Hopefully)
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2012, 11:19:58 pm »

The veterans say Thraddash, used properly, is the most broken and boring ship in the game, and it's easy to see why: all you need to do is keep your distance while firing the peashooter for hours on end.

I am still a total noob at Ur Quan and I can see the vets' point. But I like to rely mainly on my afterburner and use the pea-shooter as a secondary. At one crew per hit, I see it as more of a way to add insult to injury.

I'll set up a small row of fire for the enemy to slide into as they change screens and then 180 to hit them with the PS as an added bonus.

I think as long as you don't act like a hoe, the Thraddash can still be fun to play with/against. Remember, at only 8 crew, the Thrad is always one mistake away from certain doom. So you still need to work that afterburner to keep your flight paths unpredictable.

But that's also my favorite part of their ship. The AB allows for some awesomely erratic flight-paths and a lot of tactical badassery. Some of my greatest Thraddash victories felt more like Kung-Fu fights than space battles.
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onpon4
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Re: A Melee Guide to the Thraddash (Hopefully)
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2012, 11:31:09 pm »

I am still a total noob at Ur Quan and I can see the vets' point. But I like to rely mainly on my afterburner and use the pea-shooter as a secondary. At one crew per hit, I see it as more of a way to add insult to injury.

The problem with that strategy is the afterburner exhaust doesn't move, so it's incredibly easy to avoid them and very impossible to direct them (unless the Thraddash's opponent is an AI, which stupidly just flies into them).
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Venkman
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Re: A Melee Guide to the Thraddash (Hopefully)
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2012, 12:33:37 am »

I guess I really need to play online before I can accurately comment because right now my only human competition has been my friends...

But I feel there are still some viable ways to lure a human player into your AB exhaust, especially if they're piloting a ship with poor turning. You can use the AB to thrust into an asteroid, cue balling it at your oppenant who will either have to waste valiable energy destroying the asteroid or vear off course to avoid losing inertia. Or they can just take the knock and lose their momentum.

If your opponent chooses options B or C, you can try to maneuver in and plant your next exhaust trail accordingly.

But like I said, I should really see how this all works online against real opponents before I know how well this tactic actually works.
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Venkman
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A Melee Q&A
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2012, 03:33:42 am »

Sorry to double-post, but my internet is finally back up and running and I was reading over the Net-Melee rules when I came across this...
Quote
Courtesy and rules
Humans want a fun game and care about winning, which is very different from being programmed to not lose. Because of that the netmelee players usually stick to a set of pretty standard rules, to ensure that the game stays fun for both players[...] The rulesets are collected over on the Ultronomicon, but the most common ones are:
-No Thraddash. The ship has the potential to stall matches and upset balance if played to its limit[...]

So I guess that's that.

I can understand the logic behind it. Though, I can't say I'm not a little forlorn to discover that one of my favorite ships isn't allowed in honorable combat. And apparently the Spathi Eluder is considered one of the weakest competitors in Human-VS-Human combat, so there goes my other favorite.

I guess it's time to quit theorizing and go play some Net-Melee. Thanks for the feedback, Onpon. It was helpful, even if it wasn't exactly what I wanted to hear Wink
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 03:36:03 am by Venkman » Logged
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Re: A Melee Q&A
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2012, 09:31:31 pm »

Doesn't mean someone won't be happy to let you take it out for a spin. Rules are for official games, but there's no harm in mucking around.
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Re: A Melee Q&A
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2012, 09:12:41 am »

Doesn't mean someone won't be happy to let you take it out for a spin. Rules are for official games, but there's no harm in mucking around.
Or, if it's the afterburner tricks you're more interested in, Shiver's balance mod might be worth a look at. The main problem with Thraddash in player-to-player games, as I understand it, is that it combines a long ranged weapon with the ability to reliably maintain its distance, deter attackers from closing, and dodge or destroy any opposing long-ranged weapons. Shiver fixes that by giving it a rapid fire, short-range primary instead of a long-ranged peashooter. (And a slightly higher crew to give a little more leeway for error, but it's still pretty fragile.)

Don't know if it gets used in official games because I've never gotten involved, but it should be a less frustrating ship to fight against when it does have to close (or maneouver an opponent into an afterburner trap) rather than just darting around at long range plinking off crewmen one by one like a slightly more overt Ultimate Evil.
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Re: A Melee Q&A
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2012, 10:36:32 pm »

Don't know if it gets used in official games because I've never gotten involved, but it should be a less frustrating ship to fight against when it does have to close (or maneouver an opponent into an afterburner trap) rather than just darting around at long range plinking off crewmen one by one like a slightly more overt Ultimate Evil.

The last tournament we had (almost a year ago now, I believe) used Balance Mod, and it's probably played more than vanilla in #uqm-arena. Nobody has any problem with Thraddash in it anymore, but it's still not used very much (bad memories?  Grin).
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