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TCGM
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This should look familiar... (3D Ur Quan Masters!)
« on: February 06, 2013, 08:04:19 am »

So hey, community! I'm new! Tongue

I recently got hooked on SC2 again, and seeing as I am a programmer, modeler, and game creator, and I so love SC2....

This



should look familiar.

I'm trying to create a new, updated, and most importantly, 3D engine. I am a high school student as well, so I don't have a set schedule or anything to work on my games. But I will update this topic with my progress.

And yes, that is my model.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 02:21:11 am by TCGM » Logged

I am creating a sequel to Star Control 2 (AKA The Ur-Quan Masters). Follow my progress on the blog for Flight of the Precursors!

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Re: This should look familiar...
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2013, 02:25:12 pm »

Yes, that certainly does look familiar.  It's the planet lander.  It's a nice looking 3D model.  Did you create the planet's surface as well?  This is a good step in the path of game design and you're starting young too.

Does ST2 refer to "Star Trek 2" or something else?
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Re: This should look familiar...
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2013, 07:26:49 pm »

ST2 = Star Control 2, the point of this entire forum I'd think Tongue

EDIT: Realized it's SC2, not ST2.  Undecided
I did write that post at 3 AM though Smiley

Yes, I did create the surface. I use a terrain editor, and my code can load in any of the self-contained world files it generates. It also has real-time bump-mapping and height-mapping, making the lander hover over any piece of terrain.

EDIT2: WIP screenshot of the Kzer-Za dreadnought.

« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 09:44:41 pm by TCGM » Logged

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Re: This should look familiar... (3D Ur Quan Masters!)
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2013, 02:42:02 am »

Video, showing progress on planetary lander systems:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3KtpsFiM3M&feature=youtu.be
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Re: This should look familiar... (3D Ur Quan Masters!)
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2013, 04:49:44 am »

What language or program(s) are you using, if you don't mind me asking? It's relevant to me because whatever you produce, I cannot personally accept it if it is or depends on nonfree software (see: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html). So, if you're using a language with freedom like C or a free program like Blender, then this is really cool and I hope it goes well, but not if it requires nonfree software (such as a nonfree interpreter or compiler) or is itself nonfree software.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 05:50:57 am by onpon4 » Logged

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Re: This should look familiar... (3D Ur Quan Masters!)
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2013, 05:18:36 am »

ST2 = Star Control 2, the point of this entire forum I'd think Tongue

EDIT: Realized it's SC2, not ST2.  Undecided
I did write that post at 3 AM though Smiley

Yes, I did create the surface. I use a terrain editor, and my code can load in any of the self-contained world files it generates. It also has real-time bump-mapping and height-mapping, making the lander hover over any piece of terrain.

EDIT2: WIP screenshot of the Kzer-Za dreadnought.



How are you storing the height-mapping? I would store it in a multi-D array, personally.
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Re: This should look familiar... (3D Ur Quan Masters!)
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2013, 06:54:15 am »

What language or program(s) are you using, if you don't mind me asking? It's relevant to me because whatever you produce, I cannot personally accept it if it is or depends on nonfree software (see: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html). So, if you're using a language with freedom like C or a free program like Blender, then this is really cool and I hope it goes well, but not if it requires nonfree software (such as a nonfree interpreter or compiler) or is itself nonfree software.

Hmm... I'm a bit confused, but I'll try to explain.

I use a program called Game Maker: Studio to write all my games. The in-program language is GML, a melding of java, c, and a couple others (with the program itself written in Delphi). I DID have to buy GM:S, but anything I do in the future with it (I got it for $25) I can profit off of, distribute, give for free, etc. Totally free reign. Studio compiles into the native languages for each OS it is designed for (C for Windows, XCode for mac, etc.). Whatever I produce is NOT dependent on non-free software, just the source code is.

I am also using 3DS Max to create my models and GIMP to texture them (at least some kudos there? Sad ).

On a side, related note, how mad would you guys be at me if I thought of perhaps making this an actual sequel to UQM, complete with a story and etc, and tried to get it on Steam? Based on onpon's feedback... I'm not sure me doing that is such a good idea, but it would help the UQM universe get more known. I was thinking of "Flight of the Precusors" as a name? Maybe? But this is all rambling at this point, don't even have the entire game engine written yet.

ST2 = Star Control 2, the point of this entire forum I'd think Tongue

EDIT: Realized it's SC2, not ST2.  Undecided
I did write that post at 3 AM though Smiley

Yes, I did create the surface. I use a terrain editor, and my code can load in any of the self-contained world files it generates. It also has real-time bump-mapping and height-mapping, making the lander hover over any piece of terrain.

EDIT2: WIP screenshot of the Kzer-Za dreadnought.


How are you storing the height-mapping? I would store it in a multi-D array, personally.

Yup, exactly how the terrain editor does it. It saves to a datafile series from the program, then loads in a runtime-created model based upon the file. The heightmap is included as a grid.

Finished Dreanought:

« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 07:07:16 am by TCGM » Logged

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Re: This should look familiar... (3D Ur Quan Masters!)
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2013, 06:15:45 pm »

I use a program called Game Maker: Studio to write all my games.

Game Maker is not only nonfree, but controlled by a demonstrably evil corporation (YoYoGames). I do wish you would consider abandoning it and using free software, such as Blender (I'm not familiar with Blender, but I know it's popular and can be used to develop 3D games).

I DID have to buy GM:S, but anything I do in the future with it (I got it for $25) I can profit off of, distribute, give for free, etc. Totally free reign.

That's not what I meant by "free". When I say "free", I am talking about freedom, not price. Again, see the Free Software Definition: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

Game Maker does not give you freedom to do whatever you want. For example, you are not given the source code to Game Maker, so you cannot modify it, e.g. to get rid of malicious features like Digital Restrictions Management (DRM), or to extend its functionality. Free programs like Blender do give you these freedoms as well as all of the other freedoms mentioned in the Free Software Definition.

Studio compiles into the native languages for each OS it is designed for (C for Windows, XCode for mac, etc.). Whatever I produce is NOT dependent on non-free software, just the source code is.

But it is.

I don't know if Game Maker is compiled now or if it's still interpreted like it was previously. In the past, it simply bundled the nonfree interpreter with the executable file. If it's compiled now, it produces machine code for each system it works for, which mixes your parts (which are under your control) with nonfree parts (the code necessary to make your code run). Since Game Maker and the components it uses are nonfree, it is impossible for the end result to be free.

The only possible exception to this is when you choose the option to create Javascript code, but that's only if YoYoGames gives you complete control over the generated code and the code is actual source code (and not "minimized" code which is not human-readable). I doubt this is the case, but even if it is, you are still hurting yourself by using the nonfree program, Game Maker, in the first place.

As an aside, C is not a "native language" Windows. I don't know where you got that idea. C is a cross-platform language with a long history that started with Unix, long before Windows was conceived (before DOS, even). There is not a "native language" Windows outside Batch files (i.e. command line). What Game Maker produces is either your code bundled with an interpreter (if it is still interpreted) or machine code (if it is now compiled).

I am also using 3DS Max to create my models and GIMP to texture them (at least some kudos there? Sad ).

3DS Max is nonfree, but GIMP is free. Consider Blender instead of 3DS Max.

On a side, related note, how mad would you guys be at me if I thought of perhaps making this an actual sequel to UQM, complete with a story and etc, and tried to get it on Steam?

Someone else is already doing that (minus the Steam part): see the thread around here about Project 6014.

Based on onpon's feedback... I'm not sure me doing that is such a good idea

Note 2 things:

First, I am not the majority opinion here. I'm just one guy, and I think I'm the only person here who advocates free software so strongly. Though I do think there are others here that don't use Windows. I hope you start to see things the way I do, but not via a false understanding of this community.

Second, I personally would not be offended by you trying to make an unofficial sequel, and I don't think anyone else would. I would personally be offended if you make it nonfree (either by continuing the use of Game Maker or making it nonfree yourself), but if what you developed was a free program (with no non-free dependencies), I would applaud your efforts. You might want to get some legal advice before trying to profit from it, though, because I'm not sure if your models would be considered derivative of the CC BY-NC-SA licensed images in UQM.
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Re: This should look familiar... (3D Ur Quan Masters!)
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2013, 09:19:01 pm »

All my replies are in red.

Please remember, I'm not trying to be mean, or malicious, or anything else you could take from my responses. I'm just trying to have fun with a side hobby of mine, using the tools I know how to use.

I use a program called Game Maker: Studio to write all my games.

Game Maker is not only nonfree, but controlled by a demonstrably evil corporation (YoYoGames). I do wish you would consider abandoning it and using free software, such as Blender (I'm not familiar with Blender, but I know it's popular and can be used to develop 3D games).

Yoyogames, in the past, yes, was evil. Then, I would have agreed with you 100%, but now, not so much. Also, Blender is a 3D modelling program; I'm more familiar with 3DS Max (and I own it, to boot), so I'm going to continue using it. Note, though, that the models I use inside the program are .obj, which are NOT dependent on Max. Iirc, they can be opened and modified by blender as well.

Also, consider this; I have upwards of 10 years of experience coding games with GM, and zero experience with C. I don't have the time to learn it, either. On top of that, C is a class-based programming language (like Java) and I cannot conceptualize games when using that system. I have to use object-oriented programming or nil.


I DID have to buy GM:S, but anything I do in the future with it (I got it for $25) I can profit off of, distribute, give for free, etc. Totally free reign.

That's not what I meant by "free". When I say "free", I am talking about freedom, not price. Again, see the Free Software Definition: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

Game Maker does not give you freedom to do whatever you want. For example, you are not given the source code to Game Maker, so you cannot modify it, e.g. to get rid of malicious features like Digital Restrictions Management (DRM), or to extend its functionality. Free programs like Blender do give you these freedoms as well as all of the other freedoms mentioned in the Free Software Definition.

The only DRM GM:S contains is the DRM for itself. If you want DRM on something you create, better figure out how to code it yourself. As for extending functionality: http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?showforum=33

Again, Blender is not a game creation or programming application; it merely is a 3d animation and modeling program.


Studio compiles into the native languages for each OS it is designed for (C for Windows, XCode for mac, etc.). Whatever I produce is NOT dependent on non-free software, just the source code is.

But it is.

I don't know if Game Maker is compiled now or if it's still interpreted like it was previously. In the past, it simply bundled the nonfree interpreter with the executable file. If it's compiled now, it produces machine code for each system it works for, which mixes your parts (which are under your control) with nonfree parts (the code necessary to make your code run). Since Game Maker and the components it uses are nonfree, it is impossible for the end result to be free.

GM:S directly compiles, no runner. A ton of functions of GM had to be removed due to this, as it is now machine code instead of interpreted bytecode. What you write is what you get; no special intermediaries needed.

The only possible exception to this is when you choose the option to create Javascript code, but that's only if YoYoGames gives you complete control over the generated code and the code is actual source code (and not "minimized" code which is not human-readable). I doubt this is the case, but even if it is, you are still hurting yourself by using the nonfree program, Game Maker, in the first place.

As an aside, C is not a "native language" Windows. I don't know where you got that idea. C is a cross-platform language with a long history that started with Unix, long before Windows was conceived (before DOS, even). There is not a "native language" Windows outside Batch files (i.e. command line). What Game Maker produces is either your code bundled with an interpreter (if it is still interpreted) or machine code (if it is now compiled).

Flying spaghetti monster (I don't know, I only heard C was window's native).

I am also using 3DS Max to create my models and GIMP to texture them (at least some kudos there? Sad ).

3DS Max is nonfree, but GIMP is free. Consider Blender instead of 3DS Max.

On a side, related note, how mad would you guys be at me if I thought of perhaps making this an actual sequel to UQM, complete with a story and etc, and tried to get it on Steam?

Someone else is already doing that (minus the Steam part): see the thread around here about Project 6014.

I am aware of Project 6014, even played it a couple times.

The differences between what I'm trying to do and P6014 are these:
1. I am creating a completely separate game engine, from the ground up, based in a 3D world. P6014 is using the UQM engine, which while damn good, is still really old. And not 3D.
2. If I do make this a full-blown story-ish thing, then I'd most likely take the P6014 storyline into account, so this would be a continuation of that universe. Maybe.


Based on onpon's feedback... I'm not sure me doing that is such a good idea

Note 2 things:

First, I am not the majority opinion here. I'm just one guy, and I think I'm the only person here who advocates free software so strongly. Though I do think there are others here that don't use Windows. I hope you start to see things the way I do, but not via a false understanding of this community.

Second, I personally would not be offended by you trying to make an unofficial sequel, and I don't think anyone else would. I would personally be offended if you make it nonfree (either by continuing the use of Game Maker or making it nonfree yourself), but if what you developed was a free program (with no non-free dependencies), I would applaud your efforts. You might want to get some legal advice before trying to profit from it, though, because I'm not sure if your models would be considered derivative of the CC BY-NC-SA licensed images in UQM.

Ah, good. I was worried the entire community was this... headstrong. That's a good word for it Smiley
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Re: This should look familiar... (3D Ur Quan Masters!)
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2013, 10:26:55 pm »

Yoyogames, in the past, yes, was evil. Then, I would have agreed with you 100%, but now, not so much.

It wasn't very long ago when it was discovered that Game Maker Studio had ruined many users' projects by putting jolly rogers on them. This was an attempt to stop sharing (which they compare to attacking ships), and it was an evil act.

Also, consider this; I have upwards of 10 years of experience coding games with GM, and zero experience with C. I don't have the time to learn it, either. On top of that, C is a class-based programming language (like Java) and I cannot conceptualize games when using that system. I have to use object-oriented programming or nil.

There are a few things wrong with this statement.

First off, it's not a choice between Game Maker or C. There are tons of choices. I mentioned Blender; like you noticed, it's a 3D modelling program, but it has tools that can be used to develop games (one game I'm aware of that has been developed with it is Yo Frankie).

Second, object-oriented programming... erm, it is class-based. That's what it means. C is not object-oriented, though. C++ is an object-oriented language. Other examples include Java and Python.

Third, programming involves learning several languages. Refusing to learn new languages isn't going to get you far. A very important skill for a programmer is the ability to learn new languages.

Again, Blender is not a game creation or programming application; it merely is a 3d animation and modeling program.

Let me point to this directly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Blender

And since Game Maker is designed for 2D, Blender might be easier than Game Maker. It also uses Python for extensions, which is a very elegant language.

GM:S directly compiles, no runner. A ton of functions of GM had to be removed due to this, as it is now machine code instead of interpreted bytecode. What you write is what you get; no special intermediaries needed.

In any case, the Game Maker compiler is nonfree, and I don't think the specification is even open. It is therefore impossible to have control over software written in Game Maker; you need the nonfree Game Maker program to make your code useful. Of course, since Game Maker is nonfree, it is perfectly able to introduce malicious features YoYo Games wants through this compiler. For example, it could insert code that spies on the user of the game and sends information to YoYo Games.

Ah, good. I was worried the entire community was this... headstrong. That's a good word for it Smiley

Well, I am determined to not be controlled by others, which I why I use a completely free GNU/Linux distribution (Trisquel). But I don't think "headstrong" fits my position. The reason is I think it's only natural to want to control my own computing; it's a basic personal freedom, like freedom of speech.

And I want everyone to have this basic freedom. By using nonfree software such as Windows, Mac OS X, or Game Maker, you sacrifice this basic freedom, and that makes me sad for you.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 10:33:22 pm by onpon4 » Logged

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Re: This should look familiar... (3D Ur Quan Masters!)
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2013, 12:10:34 am »

Swapped progress posting over to a blog, so as to stop unnecessarily bumping this topic.

http://precursorflight.blogspot.com/
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Re: This should look familiar... (3D Ur Quan Masters!)
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2013, 01:57:44 am »

I honestly would really want to help you with this, but my programming experience is fairly limited.
The only language I would consider myself half-decent in is VB6, and even then its a bit of a stretch.
I do not have GameMaker nor any knowledge of how to use it. I also do not have the money available
to acquire 3Ds Max, and again do not have the experience anyways.
The only thing I could offer was my support or maybe modeling in Blender or GameMaker (if I do
buy it.)
In addition to all these setbacks I am also a high school student and therefore my schedule is
unpredictably. Though in the time I have free I usually spend in my room on my computer because
I am fairly antisocial towards most people.
Again, though, I would be more than happy to provide what assistance I can to your 'Flight of the
Precursors' project if you are willing to receive it.
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Re: This should look familiar... (3D Ur Quan Masters!)
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2013, 05:47:31 am »

I honestly would really want to help you with this, but my programming experience is fairly limited.
The only language I would consider myself half-decent in is VB6, and even then its a bit of a stretch.
I do not have GameMaker nor any knowledge of how to use it. I also do not have the money available
to acquire 3Ds Max, and again do not have the experience anyways.
The only thing I could offer was my support or maybe modeling in Blender or GameMaker (if I do
buy it.)
In addition to all these setbacks I am also a high school student and therefore my schedule is
unpredictably. Though in the time I have free I usually spend in my room on my computer because
I am fairly antisocial towards most people.
Again, though, I would be more than happy to provide what assistance I can to your 'Flight of the
Precursors' project if you are willing to receive it.

You could try your hand at creating landscapes using the terrain editor:

http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?showtopic=526631

I'm not too good with it myself, honestly, perhaps you are better? Smiley

You'll need to export d3d, which is an option in the editor. Max size of the terrain is 1024x1024, just due to the limitations of my engine. I could code more space, but... well, the terrain in the video above is 256x256, for perspective XD

I should also note, I can use models from Blender as well, provided they are exported in the .obj format. I just prefer 3DS Max for myself, as I know it better.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 07:48:42 am by TCGM » Logged

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Re: This should look familiar... (3D Ur Quan Masters!)
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2013, 01:24:41 am »

I tried making mama-styled world. What do you think?
http://www.mediafire.com/?apsiab0ffi5iaza#!
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Re: This should look familiar... (3D Ur Quan Masters!)
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2013, 02:49:00 am »

I tried making mama-styled world. What do you think?
http://www.mediafire.com/?apsiab0ffi5iaza#!

It's awesome! Better than what I can do. I just wish it was bigger (it's 128x128). Looks perfect for something like a Mycon world. To increase the size of the terrain in the editor, reference this image:

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