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Author Topic: Star control 3 plot  (Read 12122 times)
Death 999
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Re: Star control 3 plot
« Reply #45 on: August 19, 2013, 05:52:40 pm »

Probably not intentionally, but if you've got a galactic empire, you're going to be spreading your version of life around.
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Re: Star control 3 plot
« Reply #46 on: August 19, 2013, 06:19:20 pm »

By gas creatures im talking life found in gas giant zones like on Source. It doesnt have to be sapient, and most likely aint. That why i find the slylandro so intresting.

I still think a million galaxies of life is an overly pessimistic guess. We dont even know how many aliens species Star Control galaxy really has,

However many races are in star control has no application to reality whatsoever. My estimate is really an over optimistic, in reality it's more like 1/10^100 chance of life forming on a decent enough planet. That's why we need the Precursors.


Exactly, Earth sized, not Earth-like. Venus is Earth sized but it's atmosphere is mostly carbon dioxide with air temperatures hot enough to melt aluminum. Stable chemical bonds that form complex reactions will have a hard time being sustained in an environment like that  and the same is true for very cold environments.

Well I guess we only have to agree to disagree then.

There's nothing to agree to disagree on, it's just you going into denial about scientific probability. Sci-fi games are not reality, that's why they're more interesting.

Even though real extra-terrestrial life may (or may not) be rare, we have to look at what exists in the Star Control universe. Life is pretty plentiful.

Yep no one is saying life in SC2 isn't abundant.

I think the mystery of the precursors should be kept, even for the fan game. We dont need to know so much about them, and I definately dont see them as seeders of all galactic life.

They definitely had something to do with it, and why else would they construct the "Mother Ark"?

Probably not intentionally, but if you've got a galactic empire, you're going to be spreading your version of life around.

Are you suggesting the territories should grow over time?
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Re: Star control 3 plot
« Reply #47 on: August 19, 2013, 09:22:34 pm »

Probably not intentionally, but if you've got a galactic empire, you're going to be spreading your version of life around.
Are you suggesting the territories should grow over time?

I'm stating that as long as starfaring races are making planetfall on world after world, there's going to be cross-contamination. Precursors clearly did this, and I'm sure they left their mark on millions of worlds if not billions. This is not unique to them, and there have been starfaring races in all eras of Star Control since the dawn of the Sentient Milieu, so I guess yes, the territorial extent of various forms of life would tend to grow over time as they were carried (intentionally or accidentally) between the stars.
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Re: Star control 3 plot
« Reply #48 on: August 19, 2013, 11:33:41 pm »

Probably not intentionally, but if you've got a galactic empire, you're going to be spreading your version of life around.
Are you suggesting the territories should grow over time?

I'm stating that as long as starfaring races are making planetfall on world after world, there's going to be cross-contamination. Precursors clearly did this, and I'm sure they left their mark on millions of worlds if not billions. This is not unique to them, and there have been starfaring races in all eras of Star Control since the dawn of the Sentient Milieu, so I guess yes, the territorial extent of various forms of life would tend to grow over time as they were carried (intentionally or accidentally) between the stars.

Hmm, well you should post that as a suggestion on the dev google group to see what people think. It wouldn't make sense exactly for the Syreen to have an Ur-Quan sized territory at the end of the game, but perhaps a time goes on, if you aren't involved in a lot of destruction, then maybe the price of ships and fuel can go down over time. Perhaps even race territories can be effected at any time. Perhaps the Chmmr territory starts to slowly shrink if they become broken for some reason.
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Re: Star control 3 plot
« Reply #49 on: August 19, 2013, 11:44:54 pm »

By gas creatures im talking life found in gas giant zones like on Source. It doesnt have to be sapient, and most likely aint. That why i find the slylandro so intresting.

I still think a million galaxies of life is an overly pessimistic guess. We dont even know how many aliens species Star Control galaxy really has,

However many races are in star control has no application to reality whatsoever. My estimate is really an over optimistic, in reality it's more like 1/10^100 chance of life forming on a decent enough planet. That's why we need the Precursors.


Exactly, Earth sized, not Earth-like. Venus is Earth sized but it's atmosphere is mostly carbon dioxide with air temperatures hot enough to melt aluminum. Stable chemical bonds that form complex reactions will have a hard time being sustained in an environment like that  and the same is true for very cold environments.

Well I guess we only have to agree to disagree then.

There's nothing to agree to disagree on, it's just you going into denial about scientific probability. Sci-fi games are not reality, that's why they're more interesting.

Even though real extra-terrestrial life may (or may not) be rare, we have to look at what exists in the Star Control universe. Life is pretty plentiful.

Yep no one is saying life in SC2 isn't abundant.

I think the mystery of the precursors should be kept, even for the fan game. We dont need to know so much about them, and I definately dont see them as seeders of all galactic life.

They definitely had something to do with it, and why else would they construct the "Mother Ark"?

Probably not intentionally, but if you've got a galactic empire, you're going to be spreading your version of life around.

Are you suggesting the territories should grow over time?

Not in denial, just a lot more optimistic about the chances of discovering living worlds, as many scientists are. The true exploration on humanitys part hasnt even begun yet, we dont know whats out there.

In the known canon story, Precursors did not build the mother ark, we dont know who did really. It could have been some other elder race, Hayes theorized they were a leading edge of a colonization project. Precursors vanished over 200 000 years ago. You should know the lore before you start expanding it.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 11:55:11 pm by Armass » Logged
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Re: Star control 3 plot
« Reply #50 on: August 19, 2013, 11:50:57 pm »

In the known canon story, Precursors did not build the mother ark, we dont know who did really. They might have build it but that doesnt prove they were seeding the whole galaxy. You should know the lore before you start expanding it.

Seeing as how the precursors could have built the Mycon, it's not too far of a stretch that something called the "Mother Ark" harbored a wide variety of living things. And why would such a device house so many living things? I would imagine to save them or deliver them.
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Re: Star control 3 plot
« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2013, 11:58:18 pm »

In the known canon story, Precursors did not build the mother ark, we dont know who did really. They might have build it but that doesnt prove they were seeding the whole galaxy. You should know the lore before you start expanding it.

Seeing as how the precursors could have built the Mycon, it's not too far of a stretch that something called the "Mother Ark" harbored a wide variety of living things. And why would such a device house so many living things? I would imagine to save them or deliver them.

Mother Ark is what the earth press called it, its a human title given to an alien factory ship, the fact that its called the "ark" doesnt mean its a life carrying vessel. And the ark didnt have any life in it(unless you consider AI a lifeform), it arrived into our region of space some hundreds of years ago, produced the robots called the Mmrnmhrm and then broke down.
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Re: Star control 3 plot
« Reply #52 on: August 20, 2013, 12:10:25 am »

Mother Ark is what the earth press called it, its a human title given to an alien factory ship, the fact that its called the "ark" doesnt mean its a life carrying vessel. And the ark didnt have any life in it(unless you consider AI a lifeform), it arrived into our region of space some hundreds of years ago, produced the robots called the Mmrnmhrm and then broke down.

And where did those robots come from? Who built them? We don't know of many species that could have built such a race so long ago. Even star control 3 went on to suggest that a race of machines called Daktaklakpak were made by the Precursors which were suppose to emulate a more modern version of the Mmrmnhrm and SC3 even said the Precursors altered the Vyro-Ingo directly and created the Vux as well. In short, the Precursors definitely had a role in creating races in the past, but the game doesn't have to be specific enough to suggest all races.
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Re: Star control 3 plot
« Reply #53 on: August 20, 2013, 12:23:04 am »

Mother Ark is what the earth press called it, its a human title given to an alien factory ship, the fact that its called the "ark" doesnt mean its a life carrying vessel. And the ark didnt have any life in it(unless you consider AI a lifeform), it arrived into our region of space some hundreds of years ago, produced the robots called the Mmrnmhrm and then broke down.

And where did those robots come from? Who built them? We don't know of many species that could have built such a race so long ago. Even star control 3 went on to suggest that a race of machines called Daktaklakpak were made by the Precursors which were suppose to emulate a more modern version of the Mmrmnhrm and SC3 even said the Precursors altered the Vyro-Ingo directly and created the Vux as well. In short, the Precursors definitely had a role in creating races in the past, but the game doesn't have to be specific enough to suggest all races.

It could have been anyone, even a race that was rather recent. Theres no indication how long ago the factory ark was build, only that it arrived into our region of space couple of hundred years ago. It could have been sent 20 000 years ago, or 1000 years ago. One fanfic which I saw said they were made by the faz. Precursors dont have to be behind everything.

Star Control 3 had lots of things, it did say at one point that precursors build the mmrmnhrm, it also had notions that the precursors found evidence of other "precursors" on their time which had died and fought wars with other species on their time which they won, which I find much more likely than simply to say they were the first and seeded everyone else. The precursors in that game did tamper with some lifeforms, mycon are definately one as confirmed by Fred and Paul. I think it was suggested that eternal ones were more the ones that seeded and then reaped all life.

But SC3 also made some mistakes by answering too many questions on precursors part, we dont need to know everything.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 12:31:48 am by Armass » Logged
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Re: Star control 3 plot
« Reply #54 on: August 20, 2013, 12:31:06 am »

Mother Ark is what the earth press called it, its a human title given to an alien factory ship, the fact that its called the "ark" doesnt mean its a life carrying vessel. And the ark didnt have any life in it(unless you consider AI a lifeform), it arrived into our region of space some hundreds of years ago, produced the robots called the Mmrnmhrm and then broke down.

And where did those robots come from? Who built them? We don't know of many species that could have built such a race so long ago. Even star control 3 went on to suggest that a race of machines called Daktaklakpak were made by the Precursors which were suppose to emulate a more modern version of the Mmrmnhrm and SC3 even said the Precursors altered the Vyro-Ingo directly and created the Vux as well. In short, the Precursors definitely had a role in creating races in the past, but the game doesn't have to be specific enough to suggest all races.

It could have been anyone, even a race that was rather recent. Theres no indication how long ago the factory ark was build, only that it arrived into our region of space couple of hundred years ago. It could have been sent 20 000 years ago, or 1000 years ago. One fanfic which I saw said they were made by the faz. Precursors dont have to be behind everything
Well why didn't the Faz make more to right off the Dynarri? And if the Dynarri would mind control the Mmrmhrm why wouldn't the Dynarri have also used them to destroy other species? And how could the Chenjesu trust the Mmrmnhrm so much as to merge their species together if they had not been around for a long time to become friendly with each other and learn enough biology about each other that they knew it would work?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 12:33:15 am by FakeMccoy » Logged
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Re: Star control 3 plot
« Reply #55 on: August 20, 2013, 12:40:26 am »

Mother Ark is what the earth press called it, its a human title given to an alien factory ship, the fact that its called the "ark" doesnt mean its a life carrying vessel. And the ark didnt have any life in it(unless you consider AI a lifeform), it arrived into our region of space some hundreds of years ago, produced the robots called the Mmrnmhrm and then broke down.

And where did those robots come from? Who built them? We don't know of many species that could have built such a race so long ago. Even star control 3 went on to suggest that a race of machines called Daktaklakpak were made by the Precursors which were suppose to emulate a more modern version of the Mmrmnhrm and SC3 even said the Precursors altered the Vyro-Ingo directly and created the Vux as well. In short, the Precursors definitely had a role in creating races in the past, but the game doesn't have to be specific enough to suggest all races.

It could have been anyone, even a race that was rather recent. Theres no indication how long ago the factory ark was build, only that it arrived into our region of space couple of hundred years ago. It could have been sent 20 000 years ago, or 1000 years ago. One fanfic which I saw said they were made by the faz. Precursors dont have to be behind everything
Well why didn't the Faz make more to right off the Dynarri? And if the Dynarri would mind control the Mmrmhrm why wouldn't the Dynarri have also used them to destroy other species? And how could the Chenjesu trust the Mmrmnhrm so much as to merge their species together if they had not been around for a long time to become friendly with each other and learn enough biology about each other that they knew it would work?

Mrnnmhrm were not made by the time dnyarri were in power, they were produced just couple of centuries prior to the games time by the ark. The ark was made by someone, at some point of time. We dont know its exact age. It could have been faz, it could have been some other species. Take your pick, theres over ten thousand of them estimated in the galaxy of SC.

The dates are in the lore, youd have to ask Fred and Paul about that. The point is, precursors dont have to be behind everything. Take protheans from Mass Effect, they were powerful race which vanished and left their legacy to other species of the galaxy to wonder, but in the end they turned out not to be the first, or even anything like some scholars had imagined.

Orz are like that, they dont have to have anything to do with the precursors, they should be completely alien, from another dimension.
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Re: Star control 3 plot
« Reply #56 on: August 20, 2013, 12:51:40 am »

Mrnnmhrm were not made by the time dnyarri were in power, they were produced just couple of centuries prior to the games time by the ark.
Which means they are somewhat old, definitely not recent. They could easily predate the Sentient Milieu.

The dates are in the lore, youd have to ask Fred and Paul about that. The point is, precursors dont have to be behind everything. Take protheans from Mass Effect, they were powerful race which vanished and left their legacy to other species of the galaxy to wonder, but in the end they turned out not to be the first, or even anything like some scholars had imagined.
That's a fair point, but even if the Precursors did seed many races, they really aren't "behind" anything, the results we see in SC2 are of the races on their own, the Precursors have been long gone before SC2 even took place. And we did already establish for sure in the discussion (which it doesn't seem like you're keeping up on, but if you don't want to ruin the surprises I guess that's a good thing) that the Orz are in fact from their own respective Orz space dimension, the Nnngn are from outside the galaxy and the Chenjesu were definitely not made by the Precursors but formed on a degenerate matter world like a white dwarf.
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Re: Star control 3 plot
« Reply #57 on: August 20, 2013, 01:02:59 am »

Mrnnmhrm were not made by the time dnyarri were in power, they were produced just couple of centuries prior to the games time by the ark.
Which means they are somewhat old, definitely not recent. They could easily predate the Sentient Milieu.

The dates are in the lore, youd have to ask Fred and Paul about that. The point is, precursors dont have to be behind everything. Take protheans from Mass Effect, they were powerful race which vanished and left their legacy to other species of the galaxy to wonder, but in the end they turned out not to be the first, or even anything like some scholars had imagined.
That's a fair point, but even if the Precursors did seed many races, they really aren't "behind" anything, the results we see in SC2 are of the races on their own, the Precursors have been long gone before SC2 even took place. And we did already establish for sure in the discussion (which it doesn't seem like you're keeping up on, but if you don't want to ruin the surprises I guess that's a good thing) that the Orz are in fact from their own respective Orz space dimension, the Nnngn are from outside the galaxy and the Chenjesu were definitely not made by the Precursors but formed on a degenerate matter world like a white dwarf.

Or not, the Sentient Milieu died out 20 000 years ago. Theres plenty of time in there for some other species to become spacefaring, produce the mother ark and send it on its mission, whatever that mission originally was. I dont think this should be answered either in the game, another mystery for some other time.

****Minor Spoilers perhaps***

Ive read the basic plots for the 6014 in the wiki, theres lot there which I like and a lot which I feel could be explored more. Someone suggested time travel to the past, the time of the Milieu and episodic content which I think is an ok idea. Exploring the small region during the time of the dnyarri war could be a dramatic and intresting little side trip. I added some of my own humble ideas there about the physical appearance of the yuli and yuptar races and some about the drall, and couple of side quest ideas for that time.
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Re: Star control 3 plot
« Reply #58 on: August 20, 2013, 01:53:39 am »

Mrnnmhrm were not made by the time dnyarri were in power, they were produced just couple of centuries prior to the games time by the ark.
Which means they are somewhat old, definitely not recent. They could easily predate the Sentient Milieu.

The dates are in the lore, youd have to ask Fred and Paul about that. The point is, precursors dont have to be behind everything. Take protheans from Mass Effect, they were powerful race which vanished and left their legacy to other species of the galaxy to wonder, but in the end they turned out not to be the first, or even anything like some scholars had imagined.
That's a fair point, but even if the Precursors did seed many races, they really aren't "behind" anything, the results we see in SC2 are of the races on their own, the Precursors have been long gone before SC2 even took place. And we did already establish for sure in the discussion (which it doesn't seem like you're keeping up on, but if you don't want to ruin the surprises I guess that's a good thing) that the Orz are in fact from their own respective Orz space dimension, the Nnngn are from outside the galaxy and the Chenjesu were definitely not made by the Precursors but formed on a degenerate matter world like a white dwarf.

Or not, the Sentient Milieu died out 20 000 years ago. Theres plenty of time in there for some other species to become spacefaring, produce the mother ark and send it on its mission, whatever that mission originally was. I dont think this should be answered either in the game, another mystery for some other time.

Ive read the basic plots for the 6014 in the wiki, theres lot there which I like and a lot which I feel could be explored more. Someone suggested time travel to the past, the time of the Milieu and episodic content which I think is an ok idea. Exploring the small region during the time of the dnyarri war could be a dramatic and intresting little side trip. I added some of my own humble ideas there about the physical appearance of the yuli and yuptar races and some about the drall, and couple of side quest ideas for that time.

Yeah but time travel would make everything more complicated along with it's inevitable paradoxes. The only real way to time travel would be to perfectly arrange all matter and energy in the universe to a previous position and phase, after which point because of the uncertainty and inherent randomness of matter, evens may not progress exactly the same way as before. I suppose the Mother Ark didn't have to be created by the Precursors, but so far no one has made any plans to explain where it actually came from so it should be fine.
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Re: Star control 3 plot
« Reply #59 on: August 20, 2013, 03:13:30 am »

If it worked on Star Trek, it should work here too. Star Control after all doesnt take itself too seriously. Its just an scifi trope idea I think would be cool to explore.
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