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Topic: Are shofixty too racist? (Read 11339 times)
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FakeMccoy
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Posts: 203
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It's perfectly legitimate to say "tone it down" and on top of that my general plotline has support from other people, and even the people who disagree still agree with some major parts of it. If you want to spend hours writing you're more than welcome to, just contact a project leader and show him some stuff and you're on the team. If I didn't know any better though I'd say you were someone who already got kicked off.
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« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 06:13:38 pm by FakeMccoy »
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Umgahdrone
Zebranky food
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Posts: 7
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I don't want to spend hours writing, I want you to stop it.
Hence "Stop it."
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CelticMinstrel
Enlightened
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Posts: 522
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I would hardly call that trolling.
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CelticMinstrel
Enlightened
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Posts: 522
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I was referring in particular to the post at the top of this page where Umgahdrone explained why you are wrong, but if you want me to comment on the thread as a whole, I have to say that the one who looks most like a troll here is you. I don't (yet) think you are one, but you're acting more like a troll than anyone else in the thread. (Yes, even that post you skipped, while admittedly rather full of profanity, wasn't all that trollish.)
Calling people morons is indeed not trolling; at least, not always. Calling people morons out of nowhere just because they disagree with you or said something you didn't like, maybe that's trolling, but calling people morons and then explaining in detail exactly why they are morons, with reasonable arguments (rather than logical fallacies) to back them up, is not trolling. It's not very nice, sure, but it's not trolling either. The same general principle applies to everything else you listed in your post with incredulity about it being not trolling. Trolling is not as simple as you seem to think.
As for the actual topic of the thread... Why would you want to tone down the stereotypes? They've been used on purpose; they're an integral part of Star Control. They're so blatant that they're obviously not meant to be taken seriously. If you toned them down, wouldn't that suggest that maybe you actually are taking them seriously? If you eliminate them altogether, wouldn't that suggest you're making something completely different? In other words, something that is not Star Control.
Bottom line: it's not racist to embrace a stereotype in the name of comedy/parody. Star Control is a comedy/parody. Thus, there's no racism here.
Can we stop arguing about this now?
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FakeMccoy
*Many bubbles*
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I was referring in particular to the post at the top of this page where Umgahdrone explained why you are wrong, but if you want me to comment on the thread as a whole, I have to say that the one who looks most like a troll here is you. I don't (yet) think you are one, but you're acting more like a troll than anyone else in the thread. (Yes, even that post you skipped, while admittedly rather full of profanity, wasn't all that trollish.)
Calling people morons is indeed not trolling; at least, not always. Calling people morons out of nowhere just because they disagree with you or said something you didn't like, maybe that's trolling, but calling people morons and then explaining in detail exactly why they are morons, with reasonable arguments (rather than logical fallacies) to back them up, is not trolling. It's not very nice, sure, but it's not trolling either. The same general principle applies to everything else you listed in your post with incredulity about it being not trolling. Trolling is not as simple as you seem to think.
As for the actual topic of the thread... Why would you want to tone down the stereotypes? They've been used on purpose; they're an integral part of Star Control. They're so blatant that they're obviously not meant to be taken seriously. If you toned them down, wouldn't that suggest that maybe you actually are taking them seriously? If you eliminate them altogether, wouldn't that suggest you're making something completely different? In other words, something that is not Star Control.
Bottom line: it's not racist to embrace a stereotype in the name of comedy/parody. Star Control is a comedy/parody. Thus, there's no racism here.
Can we stop arguing about this now?
i'm pretty sure the Shofixty weren't made the way the way they were to be funny. If it was suppose to be funny, it would have been more obvious like the Spathi's "B.U.T.T" missiles and the Syreen's "Penetrator" ship. Racist seeming remakrs don't have to be intentional. For instance a judge can rule in a case that because someone had crack cocaine as opposed to powder cocaine that the person possessing the crack cocaine receives a sentence up to ten times longer than if they had been convicted of using powder cocaine. However, a disproportionate amount of a particular ethnic group use crack cocaine way more than the Caucasian population and thus have longer jail times for using the same drug. it's not the judge or jury trying to be racist, it's just that that particular system was not made with that disproportion in mind. So to make it clear, no one has to have anything against Japanese people to build off of an old stereotype, we should at least get rid of that triangle bonsai font.
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Kaiser
Zebranky food
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Posts: 39
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
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1. It is spelled Shofixti. You claim to be a writer? Learn to spell the words properly, even the made up ones for a game. It's your topic, do it justice.
2. The Klingons, again you seem to lack the ability spell the name properly, were actually originally based on the Russians. In the Original Series, they were devious, belligerent, and untrustworthy in general. They were meant to be the Soviet Union to the Federation's NATO. In a similar vein, the Romulans were based on Imperial Roman culture. Still are, in all honesty, including the slave rebellions.
3. Were the Shofixti based on stereotypes? Absolutely. All the races of Star Control were to some degree or another. It's a form of crude humor, yes, but it is still humor. There is nothing inherently racist about any of it, as stereotypes themselves aren't necessarily a bad thing. Using your own topic, the Shofixti, they are shown as honorable, loyal, dependable, and brave. Accomplished warriors, an essential part of Alliance culture, and above all: Friends to humanity and the Yehat. Is there anything there that one would not want to emulate?
Yes, they have the Glory Device. Perhaps that could be linked to the Divine Wind aspect of Japaneese military history. However, I view it instead as the last ditch effort of the Shofixti to be certain that if their ships are going to go down, the last man standing can make sure the deaths of the crew on board mattered and spared the lives of their fellow Allies. Again, a noble and honorable sentiment.
If you go purely by the Shofixti that appear in SC2, and their pure belligerence against the Captain? He is the last on his ship. His race seems to be wiped from existence. He believes you are his enemy, the enemy that caused the death of his entire race. He wants vengeance. I honestly can't say I blame him.
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FakeMccoy
*Many bubbles*
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1. It is spelled Shofixti. You claim to be a writer? Learn to spell the words properly, even the made up ones for a game. It's your topic, do it justice.
People who think that spelling mistakes especially for a completely fictional realm are a valid arguments for anything are obviously only here to troll. If you want to write a storyline that agrees with all the suggestions that 20+ people have made along with speech dialogues then go ahead, I've been looking for a team.
2. The Klingons, again you seem to lack the ability spell the name properly, were actually originally based on the Russians. In the Original Series, they were devious, belligerent, and untrustworthy in general. They were meant to be the Soviet Union to the Federation's NATO. In a similar vein, the Romulans were based on Imperial Roman culture. Still are, in all honesty, including the slave rebellions.
Obviously I was referring to Next Generation, another strawman. There's two versions of klingons and you purposely used s strawman to state I was talking about the klingon that completely contradicted with my description of them which is completely coherent with the Next Generation version. I think you should quit trolling while you're ahead.
3. Were the Shofixti based on stereotypes? Absolutely. All the races of Star Control were to some degree or another. It's a form of crude humor, yes, but it is still humor. There is nothing inherently racist about any of it, as stereotypes themselves aren't necessarily a bad thing. Using your own topic, the Shofixti, they are shown as honorable, loyal, dependable, and brave. Accomplished warriors, an essential part of Alliance culture, and above all: Friends to humanity and the Yehat. Is there anything there that one would not want to emulate?
So if you go up to a Japanese person and tell them that because they are Japanese that they are honorable warriors who kill themselves in glorious actions that no one will be offended? It's already a bad enough to stereotype that all Japanese people have black belts in karate. When star control tries to be funny it's more subtle than blatantly using stereotypes, like B.U.T.T Missiles or an exceptionally long ship called the "Penetrator". Anything already is "some tiny bit" of stereotype because the only things that can be a tiny tiny stereotype are common in any culture in the world while the actions are characters in UQM are already based off of terrestrial emotions and responses.
The phrase "stereotypes are not a bad thing" makes me lose faith in humanity.
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« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 07:50:46 am by FakeMccoy »
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Tiberian
*Smell* controller
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Posts: 335
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A final command FakeMccoy, but it is more of a plea.
Drop this subject. There is nobody who agrees with you.
It really pains me to see a thread like this and I dare say I'm not the only one.
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Kaiser
Zebranky food
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Posts: 39
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
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People who think that spelling mistakes especially for a completely fictional realm are a valid arguments for anything are obviously only here to troll. If you want to write a storyline that agrees with all the suggestions that 20+ people have made along with speech dialogues then go ahead, I've been looking for a team. There is a difference between a spelling mistake and a compulsion to typo. No writer worth his salt would continually typo the primary subject matter that he or she is actually writing. Once tor twice? That's a mistake. Yet to consistently fail to spell virtually any alien race name? You are either trolling or you lack any and all coherent writing ability.
While I do enjoy writing, attempting to work with someone who takes no pride in his work or makes little to no effort to compose it... No, just no. It would be like group projects in school. The stupid kid would expect the real writers to do all the work.
Obviously I was referring to Next Generation, another strawman. There's two versions of klingons and you purposely used s strawman to state I was talking about the klingon that completely contradicted with my description of them which is completely coherent with the Next Generation version. I think you should quit trolling while you're ahead. Oh, yes. So obvious that your "Clingons" were merely the Klingons of Star Trek The Next Generation rather than The Original Series or the transition from TOS version into TNG version. Or, you know, not.
The Klingons, even in The Next Generation, were still attempts at emulating Russian stereotypes. Relucant allies with the Federation. Claiming to be honorable yet still maintaining assassinations and sneak attacks. Even their state of the art technology looking like space junk. Basically, US/Western thoughts on the Russian Federation.
Yet I suppose you CHOOSE not to see that
So if you go up to a Japanese person and tell them that because they are Japanese that they are honorable warriors who kill themselves in glorious actions that no one will be offended? It's already a bad enough to stereotype that all Japanese people have black belts in karate. When star control tries to be funny it's more subtle than blatantly using stereotypes, like B.U.T.T Missiles or an exceptionally long ship called the "Penetrator". Anything already is "some tiny bit" of stereotype because the only things that can be a tiny tiny stereotype are common in any culture in the world while the actions are characters in UQM are already based off of terrestrial emotions and responses.
The phrase "stereotypes are not a bad thing" makes me lose faith in humanity.
Why would I go up to a random person and tell them they're honorable or a warrior? You don't quite grasp what a stereotype is, do you? Only an idiot BELIEVES a stereotype applies to everyone.
To ANY friend, if I knew his or her family's military background? I'd gladly tell them that their brother/uncle/cousin was more than honorable and noble when he sacrificed himself to save his friends and squad mates by throwing himself on a grenade to take the blade. I'd gladly tell them their great grandfather was a hero for going down with his plane to deliever the torpedo that sunk an enemy battlecruiser. This is no matter which side they fought on. Why? Because it takes guts to make those kinds of sacrifices. It's a courage many of us wish we had, might even say we have, but if push came to shove we would be either seeking cover and letting Private Jimmy take the shards of the grenade or turning the fighter-bomber around to save our own skin.
Also, I hate to break it to you, but a "BUTT" projectile that makes a farting sound and a dildo-shaped rocket ship flown by crews of only women are not "subtle".
You know, you remind me a lot of a troll over on the old solar-outpost forums (before the admin lost the domain much later on and a porn site bought it out, much like Starcontrol.com for awhile). I think he went by Chenjesu or Slylandro. Same writing style, same nonsensical ramblings. Except he was talking about eating fungus, deep children, and rainbow worlds. Damned drug addled freak he seemed to be.
I would say that your constant misspellings and grammar flubs are very good evidence that you're not actually a writer.
Amen.
If you want to ask Damon and Nico if I wrote stuff for the project be my guest. On top of that, it merely signifies I was rushing something out for people to view to give more time to think about different aspects. If you're some fancy professional writer you're more than welcome to write for the project because I've been looking for writers.
No one has doubt that you submitted your drivel. We all just realize it is poorly written and the plot lines are utter garbage.
If Project 6014 wishes to lower themselves to your standards, well... They'll certainly be going the way of Timewarp.
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