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Author Topic: Starcon with UQM ships  (Read 9788 times)
ErekLich
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Re: Starcon with UQM ships
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2003, 07:56:43 pm »

Whoops, I didn't even notice that...

it's fixed now.

As far as getting to work goes, I'd like to hear from the developers on the feasability of this first...
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Re: Starcon with UQM ships
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2003, 10:54:44 pm »

I dunno...I'd rather not have the Kohr-ah just have a copy of the Ur-quan's ability. How about the kohr-ah can destroy mines and colonies defended by fortifications always, but the fortification remains there?

Also, how about more than 7 ships? I think a good number would be you can select up to 8 ships on your team, but you can have up to 13 in play.
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Death 999
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Re: Starcon with UQM ships
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2003, 11:13:35 pm »

First Question - were the old starbuck costs the same as the new melee values???

Second Question - should we have another 'standard' team of 7 to be a fair match for the Hierarchy or Alliance teams? Well, let's see:
Okay - now, we have 25 ships to divide up into some ideas for official teams.
25 is not a multiple of 7, so we aren't going to be able to split them up into four teams. Anyway, if you look at this distribution of the ships that are left over, it's awfully top-heavy. I also point out plot difficulties.

30 - Kohr-Ah (Unlikely to be part of a team), Chmmr (no sense against original alliance).
23 - Orz
22 - Utwig
20 - Pkunk
18 - Melnorme (unlikely to engage in an all-out war)
17 - Druuge, Slylandro (no sense)
16 - Supox
10 - Thraddash
06 - Zoq-Fot-Pik
compare this to the 30-21-18-15-12-10-7 of the Hierarchy and 28-23-19-16-13-11-5 of the Alliance, and we see we're missing something in the low teens slot.

So it looks like that's not going to happen.
Then I guess we should build some customized teams for specific scenarios. No longer a limit of 7 ships, and of course further restrictions could apply.

General Purpose:
Expanded Alliance:
Old Alliance + Pkunk + ZFP
VS
Expanded Hierarchy:
Old Hierarchy + Druuge + Thraddash


Scenario: The VUX have had it with our deformed bodies and are on a mission of genocide of all humanoids. They balance out their side with a few folks who find the idea amusing. So the VUX are *dancing* in the *middle* to the tune of "HAR HAR HAR". They have also managed to
Orz (23), <<Mycon(21)>>, VUX(13), Thraddash(10), Umgah(7)
VS
Utwig(22), Arilou(16), Androsynth(15), Syreen(13), Earthling(11)
Problem: all the humanoid ships do well against Mycon - especially the Syreen, Androsynth, Arilou, Utwig, and Earthling. Oh, wait! That's all of them.
If we scratch the Mycon, we're left with few options that could plausibly go up against any of the humanoids in the right point range, unless we have them reprogram the Mmrnmhrm

Scenario: The Kohr-Ah are coming! The Utwig and Supox are in the way. The Kohr-Ah have a lot of starting ships and a starbase, but the dauntless duo have some mines and colonies.

Scenario: The acceleration of the Process has irrevocably damaged the Chmmr, who all go a little nuts. Some of them realize this and revert. However, the Chmmr deny this and maintain their political hegemony. Then they commit some sort of weird and probably act which convinces several races that they must side with the Chenjesu. This prompts the Chmmr to declare war.
Chmmr, Orz, Spathi, Earthling, Shofixti
Chenjesu, Utwig, Mmrnmhrm, Supox, Syreen, Zoq-Fot-Pik (who always wanted to be with the Chenjesu to begin with)
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Re: Starcon with UQM ships
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2003, 11:29:33 pm »

Just let people design their own teams, although some scenarios can require preset ones.  More options = good.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2003, 11:30:07 pm by JWJ » Logged
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Re: Starcon with UQM ships
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2003, 11:34:12 pm »

I agree, I think the best option is to have people draft their own teams.

Whoever drafts first will move second in the game.  The first player picks a ship, then the second player, then the first again and so on until they have picked the number of ships they'll get on their team (7? 8? more?).  The remeaining ships are neutral.

Players start with X Starbucks and a starbase, that sort of thing.

As an alternative, you could have an option to generate random teams.
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Re: Starcon with UQM ships
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2003, 08:44:54 pm »

I think both the option to generate random teams and to pick one ship per player and then one more are good ideas, and will work beautifully in multiplayer.

Another idea I came up with (which people probably wont like, but I'll give it a try any way) is a two player story mode. you know, instead of just making a scenario, make a baiss for the whole game. the Quan start with all their old Thralls and the Traddash on their side, whereas the alliance starts with their original ships, possibly the Pkunk as well. Each side controls roughly what they controlled on the Starmap in the SC2 Map. Then it's up to you and your friend to duke it out. Depending on how big this starmap is, you'd be able to recruit the Utwig and Supox (or conquer them), and while the alliance could buy Druuge favours, the Ur-Quan could force a trading contract on them to supply a certain amount of ships. After that, it's just tactical battles til one side manages to push through and defeat the other. Alternativley, in multiplayer you could have one person commanding the Supox-Utwig alliance, with the Druuge at heir side.

I konw, this would be a HUGE job, and there are a lot of balancing issues to work out, but imagine how cool the ready product would be! And when you don't want to play this, you customize your own scenarios, in which all races are available.
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Re: Starcon with UQM ships
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2003, 08:49:12 pm »

I can understand having preset teams for some single-player scenarios though, so the story will make sense. But in multiplayer, you should definitely be able to pick your own teams.
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Re: Starcon with UQM ships
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2003, 11:22:55 pm »

Well, of course people should be able to mix and match team!  I was just bringing up the question of the teams for the scenarios that would be 'shipped' with the game.

by the way - the scenarios apply to multiple player as well as single player - the game is exactly the same if there are two players as if there are zero players and the computer is playing against itself.

I think that draft is a nifty idea - but we don't need to build it into the game since it's so easy to moderate in person. Anything goes as long as the players agree to it.
Remember the scenario which pitted one Ur-Quan with no starbase against several shofixti, a few colonies, and a starbase? That's a good scenario, but it's nothing like balanced.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2003, 11:27:52 pm by Death_999 » Logged
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Re: Starcon with UQM ships
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2003, 01:29:08 am »

IAnd there could be cameo scenarios where Sc2 races make their appearance during the War, like a joint Chenjesu ZFP battle against Quan forces, where it is imperative to destory the enemy lest they find out bout the ZFP, or a Pkunk mission where you first encounter the Ilwrath...
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Re: Starcon with UQM ships
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2003, 09:07:17 pm »

I still say use 3-d on the darn map. Those of us who were good at seeing our way around the systems could really screw with novices who couldn't.
I think it's significant to note that SC1's full game battles did not take place in hyperspace. They were purely within systems of planets. Sure those systems had somewhere in the vicinity of 25 to 60 planets and no sun, but every spot on the SC1 map was a planet, not a star system.
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Re: Starcon with UQM ships
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2003, 07:29:36 pm »

Man, my last post got shot off the bottom of the page so fast with someone who posted like 20 reply posts in one day.

However, I have a question that I believe goes in this thread.

To make  a sc1 3-d randomly generated map, How? See, how do you make the stars so that they are close enough to each other without crossing into other planetary lanes? Am I making sense.

What I'm asking is on a technical level how would one generate a 3-d planetary map like in Sc1? As the code for sc1 is gone I suppose the answer is "any way that you want," but as my programming expertiese is rusty and wasn't that good to begin with, I need someone else to go "It was probably done like ...." And that's what I'm asking for.
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Re: Starcon with UQM ships
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2003, 11:43:49 pm »

I would simply create a rectangular grid with the right topology, then apply repulsive forces to the nodes, and apply a relaxaion algorithm it until it was nice and smooth.
Note that we wouldn't need to cook these up, as there are standard, free libraries which will do this kind of stuff in microseconds.

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Re: Starcon with UQM ships
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2003, 10:50:37 am »

You know what would be kind of cool?  If you were to build it into the original game to at certain times go to a SC1-like scenerio that's currently taking place in the game; like the Pkunk vs Ilwrath, Ilwrath vs. Thraddash, uhm, Utwig and Syreen vs Kohr-Ah (as previously mentioned), Pkunk vs. Yehat.  And at the end of the game, New Alliance of Free Stars + Chmmr vs Ur-quan and Kohr-Ah and remaining Heirarchy.

Well I guess that would totally ruin the plot of the game depending on if the player wins (since I guess you'd want to put the player on the 'good' side each time, and in SC2 up to the end the good side is always losing).  Just an idea.

Or maybe it could be like "Great battles of ungoing conflicts" intermission-like thing.  Like after you just completed a section in the game it would come up with a splash screen with the aformetioned text and them show the scenerio description and then let you battle.  If you won it wouldn't make much of a difference since it was just one battle.

I'm rambling, sorry. Smiley
« Last Edit: March 23, 2003, 10:57:10 am by zixyer » Logged
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Re: Starcon with QUM ships
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2003, 11:07:05 am »

Quote

I think the first thing to do would have someone who knows C and the UQM code to assess if this can easily or not easily added...

You know, a whole "level of effort".


Well, I can give some insight on this...as I've been recently working on a lot of bug fixes and such. I would say the "level of effort" would be pretty high. Several of the core systems could probably be used with modifications (battle, sound,  graphics, input, etc), but there's *a lot* of other code that would be needed to be written that's specific to the Star Control 1 strategy game. Not to put a damper on the whole idea, but at least from my viewpoint it's an extremely non-trivial task. But hey, if you can get dedicated and skilled people to work on it, it can be done...it'll just take substantial time and effort.

Also, I won't put words in the mouth of the developers/core team, but the idea is "no gameplay additions until after stable 1.0", so I doubt any of the core guys will be able to work on such a project at this point, since right now there's a lot of work being done on some of the core systems. But you know, after 1.0, who knows what will happen.
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Re: Starcon with UQM ships
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2003, 04:23:07 pm »

So, did anyone ever start anything on this? it'd be a shame to see it go, it was an awesome idea....
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