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Topic: Ur-Quan Psychology 101 (Read 6666 times)
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Lukipela
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The Ancient One
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Well, it's hard to say really. But the ur-Quan do have a very stong sense of honour (as man ytribal societys do), do as soon as they come to realize that the Alliance acts with honour (provided it does so!), they should be able to become members in spirit and not only in name.
However, as the Ur-Quan have a high disdain of other races, I rellay don't know how this could be borught about. Perhaps if the alliance would save the Ur-Quan from something they could not protect themselves from? (as to what this would be, it could be anything from a dnyarri to an virus of some sort, civil war or the revenge of the Faz) That would perhaps make them see that others can be "worthy" as well.
I'd say that the Ur-Quan on a rational level should be able to adapt to the Alliance (after all, they were in the Milieu as well), but on an emotional level, it may take a long time for them to overcome their defeat and their xenophobia. However, the Quan have shown themselves quite good at overcoming their primal instincts, so maybe that wouldn't be a problem?
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What's up doc?
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Death 999
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We did. You did. Yes we can. No.
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Well, having been defeated would probably break them of their superiority complex, at least on an intellctual level - and then allowing them to maintain substantial independence could be worked out to earn some non-xenophobia.
Maybe we send in the Dalai Lama and he manages to get them to see our point of view. Oh, crud - now we need to find new bad guys.
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Cyamarin
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Midimaze!!!
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Wait...I thought the Ur-Quan DIDN'T have any predators on their homeworld. I thought they said that on a world where you, the solitary hunter, is at the top of the food chain, the only thing you have to fear is your fellow Ur-Quan.
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Garthor
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IOU One Witty Comment
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Basically, the Ur-Quan were the only main predators of their world, and they hunted alone. This lead to widespread mistrust of their fellow Ur-Quan, but they somehow overcame this and advanced to the space age. It is my personal opinion that they took to space simply to get away from one another. While they were exploring their own solar system, the Sentient Milieu found them, and they joined up. Due to the Ur-Quan's solitary nature, they became scouts for the Milieu, and thus, were the first to fall to the Dnyarri, as they were the first to find them. We all know the story from there. So, they don't really have xenophobia, but they are simply mistrustful of EVERYBODY, due to their solitary nature, and the Dnyarri mind-control and subsequent forced elimination of the only race they ever trusted and liked, the Taalo. They trusted and liked the Taalo, of course, because they were not organic beings, and thus did not trigger the deep-rooted mistrust of all things living that the Ur-Quan have.
As for your #2 statement, I think you have the Ur-Quan confused with the Spathi there.
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« Last Edit: March 04, 2003, 11:26:59 am by Garthor »
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A spleen is a terrible thing to waste.
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Kohr-Ah_Primat
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Well, having been defeated would probably break them of their superiority complex, at least on an intellctual level - and then allowing them to maintain substantial independence could be worked out to earn some non-xenophobia.
Personally, I doubt their superiority complex could be broken apart so easily; I'm more certain they'd find some excuse to rationalize what happened. Plus, their most sacred trophy was destroyed by an upstart human-- even if intellectually they are defeated, I doubt their subsequent rage and bitter hatred would allow them to reason things out.
After all, the Dnyarri had absolute control over them for a very long period of time, but in the end they overcame that threat despite their initial period of subjugation.
They would probably just plot some way to vindicate the blow they were dealt by the Alliance, in pursuit of the truth of the 'ideal' that Ur-Quans are above all supreme.
Well, I imagine the Kohr-Ah would, anyways. The Kzer-Za might be talked down from their rage, given that they seem mildly sympathetic to their slave races' status during and after the Doctrinal War.
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We are the Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah.
Our nature, the fulfillment of our fate requires your destruction.
You are filth. It is now your time to be cleansed.
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Matticus
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The Ur-Quan were not the only predators on their world. The Melnorme say:
Since they had to compete for survival against many physically superior species the Ur-Quan evolved intelligence and tool use, in much the same way as your own species.
The confusion about whether the Ur-Quan were the only predators or not likely comes from a statement made by the Kohr-Ah:
We evolved on a hostile world, the descendants of solitary hunters.
In a world where one species is the dominant killer one's only threat is one's brother, one's sister, anyone of one's species.
Civilization did not come easily to us, we earned it.
We mastered our hatreds and murderous desires to form a mighty culture.
They evolved tool use and became the dominant killers, much as humans are the dominant killers on Earth today. An interesting note: the first sentence is repeated verbatim when the Kzer-Za respond to The Words.
Now as to the Ur-Quan's primary motivation... it's so simple that I think it's been overlooked. Fear. Yes, for all their intimidation and big starships and superior attitude, the Ur-Quan are afraid. They're afraid of ever being enslaved by anyone ever again. One could argue that their decision to undertake an endless confrontation with other species would lead one to a different conclusion. Yeah, well that would be the point. Deep down the Ur-Quan are cowards, afraid to confront their own inner demons they inherited from their ancestors.
Yeah. Now try telling that to an Ur-Quan. =)
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philosophy is the talk on a cereal box
religion is a smile on a dog
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UAF
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As far as I know the Precursor disappeared 300,000 years ago, and appeared shortly before that.
You're right about the Ur-quan enslavement period.
There are several problems with the idea that the Ur-quan might change their minds:
A) They are right. Really, if any other race would be either enslaved or annihilated, there is no chance that the Ur-quan would be enslaved.
B) It worked for 20,000 years. All that time, no one defeated either the Ur-quan, or the Kohr-ah (that didn't even had the Sa-matra to help them!) So after 20,000 years, what's one failure??
Not to mention that it was only the Kzer-za doctrine that failed - their slaves raised against them and defeated them.
I can see the Kohr-ah saying "I told you so" to any Kzer-za they meet. After all, dead races can't come back and kill you.
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« Last Edit: April 12, 2003, 05:11:36 am by UAF »
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Death 999
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We did. You did. Yes we can. No.
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On the other hand, it could be argued that if the Kohr-Ah hadn't been going around killing everyone, the rebellion would not have had enough support to win (though this is questionable, since it didn't really come up as an argument for any one species joining the alliance, it could be true, depending on how influential the psychic vibes saying "Attack the Kohr-Ah" were on the Pkunk and Utwig)
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