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Author Topic: Ur-Quan Psychology 101  (Read 5464 times)
arcain
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Ur-Quan Psychology 101
« on: March 03, 2003, 11:18:41 am »

Lets delv a bit deep inside the Ur-Quan brain shall we?

We have here:

1) An ancient race of beings that have come from a rather hostile environment.

2) Beings that, before enslavement, had serious trust issues to begin with seeing as they actually HAD predators on their homeworld that thought Ur-Quan flesh was tasty.

3) Subsequent enslavement by "You know who" didn't help things any.

4) Tentacle envy (this is purely speculative on my part.)

Okay.. So here we have these giant caterpillars with a serious groove on staying alive.  They developed community, space travel and technological skills as a means to stay alive.  I won't even get in to how if they had achieved this level of technology that they were not able to either contain or eliminate the predatory influence that dominated their very existance: Not to mention their penchiant for killing one-another.

So here we have this basically tribal society that has been geneticaly split in to subset classes and after several centuries of enslavement set lose on the galaxy.  This does not bode well.

We see here a mindset that is both highly fore-brained and yet at the same time lacks development in the low-brain areas.  My theory is this:  Take a hyperactive child with a bad temper and give it the intelligence of a genius.  Then, piss it off for a really long time... Now, it wants revenge.

What's your take on this? AND! How long do you think it would take for the Ur-Quan as a whole or in part to realise that the benefit of an alliance and the establishment of trust would do so much more good than harm?

Arcain.
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Re: Ur-Quan Psychology 101
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2003, 06:26:21 pm »

Well, it's hard to say really. But the ur-Quan do have a very stong sense of honour (as man ytribal societys do), do as soon as they come to realize that the Alliance acts with honour (provided it does so!), they should be able to become members in spirit and not only in name.

However, as the Ur-Quan have a high disdain of other races, I rellay don't know how this could be borught about. Perhaps if the alliance would save the Ur-Quan from something they could not protect themselves from? (as to what this would be, it could be anything from a dnyarri to an virus of some sort, civil war or the revenge of the Faz) That would perhaps make them see that others can be "worthy" as well.

I'd say that the Ur-Quan on a rational level should be able to adapt to the Alliance (after all, they were in the Milieu as well), but on an emotional level, it may take a long time for them to overcome their defeat and their xenophobia. However, the Quan have shown themselves quite good at overcoming their primal instincts, so maybe that wouldn't be a problem?
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Re: Ur-Quan Psychology 101
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2003, 11:11:12 pm »

Well, having been defeated would probably break them of their superiority complex, at least on an intellctual level - and then allowing them to maintain substantial independence could be worked out to earn some non-xenophobia.

Maybe we send in the Dalai Lama and he manages to get them to see our point of view. Oh, crud - now we need to find new bad guys.
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Re: Ur-Quan Psychology 101
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2003, 12:26:07 am »

Wait...I thought the Ur-Quan DIDN'T have any predators on their homeworld.  I thought they said that on a world where you, the solitary hunter, is at the top of the food chain, the only thing you have to fear is your fellow Ur-Quan.
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Re: Ur-Quan Psychology 101
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2003, 05:32:32 am »

You can't really reason with an Ur-Quan, no matter which sub-race they are part of.

They have a very fixed mind-set: Worked for so long, can't be wrong now!
(I have seen that behavoir before, but can't put a finger on it right now?)

And I want to keep those nasty Ur-Quan as an enemy: There are so many, they fight efficiently and I like to "Blow up an Ur-Quan for..." Commander Hayes.
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Re: Ur-Quan Psychology 101
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2003, 09:06:18 am »

Ohh, hey! Maybe you are correct.  It's been a while since I've run into the Ur-Quan, so I foget if they were  the only predators, or if they were hunted.. Good point.

I don't have a copy of the text or I'd check.  I'll have to look into it further.  If anyone has any information on it one way or the other, please feel free to post it.

Thanks.

Arcain.
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Re: Ur-Quan Psychology 101
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2003, 11:26:32 am »

Basically, the Ur-Quan were the only main predators of their world, and they hunted alone.  This lead to widespread mistrust of their fellow Ur-Quan, but they somehow overcame this and advanced to the space age.  It is my personal opinion that they took to space simply to get away from one another.  While they were exploring their own solar system, the Sentient Milieu found them, and they joined up.  Due to the Ur-Quan's solitary nature, they became scouts for the Milieu, and thus, were the first to fall to the Dnyarri, as they were the first to find them.  We all know the story from there.  So, they don't really have xenophobia, but they are simply mistrustful of EVERYBODY, due to their solitary nature, and the Dnyarri mind-control and subsequent forced elimination of the only race they ever trusted and liked, the Taalo.  They trusted and liked the Taalo, of course, because they were not organic beings, and thus did not trigger the deep-rooted mistrust of all things living that the Ur-Quan have.

As for your #2 statement, I think you have the Ur-Quan confused with the Spathi there.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2003, 11:26:59 am by Garthor » Logged

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Re: Ur-Quan Psychology 101
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2003, 05:53:42 am »

Quote
Well, having been defeated would probably break them of their superiority complex, at least on an intellctual level - and then allowing them to maintain substantial independence could be worked out to earn some non-xenophobia.

Personally, I doubt their superiority complex could be broken apart so easily; I'm more certain they'd find some excuse to rationalize what happened. Plus, their most sacred trophy was destroyed by an upstart human-- even if intellectually they are defeated, I doubt their subsequent rage and bitter hatred would allow them to reason things out.

After all, the Dnyarri had absolute control over them for a very long period of time, but in the end they overcame that threat despite their initial period of subjugation.

They would probably just plot some way to vindicate the blow they were dealt by the Alliance, in pursuit of the truth of the 'ideal' that Ur-Quans are above all supreme.

Well, I imagine the Kohr-Ah would, anyways. The Kzer-Za might be talked down from their rage, given that they seem mildly sympathetic to their slave races' status during and after the Doctrinal War.
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Re: Ur-Quan Psychology 101
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2003, 09:14:56 am »

The Ur-Quan were not the only predators on their world. The Melnorme say:

Since they had to compete for survival against many physically superior species the Ur-Quan evolved intelligence and tool use, in much the same way as your own species.
The confusion about whether the Ur-Quan were the only predators or not likely comes from a statement made by the Kohr-Ah:
We evolved on a hostile world, the descendants of solitary hunters.
In a world where one species is the dominant killer one's only threat is one's brother, one's sister, anyone of one's species.
Civilization did not come easily to us, we earned it.
We mastered our hatreds and murderous desires to form a mighty culture.

They evolved tool use and became the dominant killers, much as humans are the dominant killers on Earth today. An interesting note: the first sentence is repeated verbatim when the Kzer-Za respond to The Words.

Now as to the Ur-Quan's primary motivation... it's so simple that I think it's been overlooked. Fear. Yes, for all their intimidation and big starships and superior attitude, the Ur-Quan are afraid. They're afraid of ever being enslaved by anyone ever again. One could argue that their decision to undertake an endless confrontation with other species would lead one to a different conclusion. Yeah, well that would be the point. Deep down the Ur-Quan are cowards, afraid to confront their own inner demons they inherited from their ancestors.

Yeah. Now try telling that to an Ur-Quan. =)
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Re: Ur-Quan Psychology 101
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2003, 09:40:23 am »

Quote
Now as to the Ur-Quan's primary motivation... it's so simple that I think it's been overlooked. Fear. Yes, for all their intimidation and big starships and superior attitude, the Ur-Quan are afraid. They're afraid of ever being enslaved by anyone ever again. One could argue that their decision to undertake an endless confrontation with other species would lead one to a different conclusion. Yeah, well that would be the point. Deep down the Ur-Quan are cowards, afraid to confront their own inner demons they inherited from their ancestors.

Yeah. Now try telling that to an Ur-Quan. =)

You'd be afraid too if you were controlled by super-psychic powered brain frogs who can order you to destroy your best friends, genetically split your entire species and generally wreak havoc in the peaceful galaxy.  I don't think the Ur-Quan are fearful or cowardice towards their Dnyarri enslavement.  I think their need to enslave and supress enemy races is to ensure and prevent the event from occuring again.  The Ur-Quan don't want to find any aliens on distant planets like they did with that first Brain-toad...  I think their doctrine of enslavement is for survival, not out of emotional response to the incident... although there certainly is a lot of it.
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Re: Ur-Quan Psychology 101
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2003, 09:45:14 am »

Quote

You'd be afraid too if you were controlled by super-psychic powered brain frogs who can order you to destroy your best friends, genetically split your entire species and generally wreak havoc in the peaceful galaxy.  I don't think the Ur-Quan are fearful or cowardice towards their Dnyarri enslavement.  I think their need to enslave and supress enemy races is to ensure and prevent the event from occuring again.  The Ur-Quan don't want to find any aliens on distant planets like they did with that first Brain-toad...  I think their doctrine of enslavement is for survival, not out of emotional response to the incident... although there certainly is a lot of it.

I'm not saying I'd fare any better were I in their place. But the Ur-Quan simply never got over themselves. Yeah, it's a terrible thing to be enslaved for such a long time but it's about time someone was able to make a powerful enough alliance to smack them down and show them that they're wrong!

The very fact that they are acting to prevent the thing from happening again proves that they are fearful of it on some level. That's logic. =)

Their fear runs so deeply that it's become an instinct, a genetic memory. But one that is rooted in fear. And there is no response more emotional than that of pure, raw, uninhibited instinct.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2003, 09:45:50 am by Matticus » Logged

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Re: Ur-Quan Psychology 101
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2003, 09:15:47 pm »

Actually, the Kohr-Ah do fear the Dnyarri. So does the Kzer-za (since they shared fate with the Kohr-Ah). As stated by a Kohr-Ah captain, when owning the pet:


We sense... something... something ancient... a sickly smell... a chilling wind.
My ancestors scream from within their chambers in my mind
but I cannot understand their words.
This feeling... a memory? It sickens us, and for the first time in our lives
for the first time in generations
We fear.


And BTW, I posted somewhere the calculation of how long ago did the Precursors disappear (about 390,000 earth(??) years) and the Ur-Quan were enslaved for several thousand years (rather than centuries). about 5000 if I'm not mistaken.
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Re: Ur-Quan Psychology 101
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2003, 01:35:42 am »

As far as I know the Precursor disappeared 300,000 years ago, and appeared shortly before that.
You're right about the Ur-quan enslavement period.

There are several problems with the idea that the Ur-quan might change their minds:
A) They are right. Really, if any other race would be either enslaved or annihilated, there is no chance that the Ur-quan would be enslaved.
B) It worked for 20,000 years. All that time, no one defeated either the Ur-quan, or the Kohr-ah (that didn't even had the Sa-matra to help them!) So after 20,000 years, what's one failure??
Not to mention that it was only the Kzer-za doctrine that failed - their slaves raised against them and defeated them.
I can see the Kohr-ah saying "I told you so" to any Kzer-za they meet. After all, dead races can't come back and kill you.
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Re: Ur-Quan Psychology 101
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2003, 02:30:18 am »

That would be a pretty valid argument for bringing over the Kzer-Za to the "Eternal Doctrine". Now there's a worrying thought....

I doubt even the Chmmr could stand against a cmbined fleet of that magnitude, once tey regrouped...
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Re: Ur-Quan Psychology 101
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2003, 03:15:48 am »

On the other hand, it could be argued that if the Kohr-Ah hadn't been going around killing everyone, the rebellion would not have had enough support to win (though this is questionable, since it didn't really come up as an argument for any one species joining the alliance, it could be true, depending on how influential the psychic vibes saying "Attack the Kohr-Ah" were on the Pkunk and Utwig)
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