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Author Topic: Winning "impossible" melee match-ups  (Read 8274 times)
Shiver
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Winning "impossible" melee match-ups
« on: March 07, 2003, 04:31:21 am »

Yep, you heard right. I just discovered that there's a way to defeat the Androsynth with the Orz. The awesome AI does not go on the offensive until you, a cannon shell, or a marine get close to it. This leaves you as much time as you need to find a planet. Set your cannon to backwards, then do so. Gravity whip off the planet as hard as you can and launch a marine. The Blazer will comet when the marine gets close, but now he will not be able to catch you. If he gets behind you, pound away with your cannon. This is pretty much the only way you can hurt him without dying, so re-gravity whip as many times as you need to. As long as you've got a space marine deployed, you're no longer safe so staying "whipped" is a necessity. This strategy is far from consistent in getting wins, but it's worked for me several times.

Now, if only I could beat that bastard Arilou...
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Dave Morse
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Re: Winning "impossible" melee match-ups
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2003, 08:43:23 am »

Nice one!

Hey maybe you can give me some pointers.  I have to fight a fully functional Chmmmmr Avatar.  I am piloting an Earthling cruiser.  Please send help!
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Re: Winning "impossible" melee match-ups
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2003, 09:11:14 am »

The best tatic I've heard to use (kudos to BioSlayer!) is to charge.  Try to come in at an angle, ie NOT in the laser's path and get your head inside the ZapStat's radius.  Fire off both nukes, point-blank.  This actually does more damage than the point-defense would.

What?  Oh, you actually wanted to defeat the thing, not just damage it?  Sorry, I don't think that's humanly possible.
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Re: Winning "impossible" melee match-ups
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2003, 02:16:34 pm »

Using the planet vs Androsyn(th) has been obvious for some time. This isn't an unwinnable matchup.

Anything short range (Ilwrath, Umgah, Pkunk) or Earthling vs Chmmr, however, is pretty difficult. If not for randomness (planets, asteroids) it would be possible - although a real pain in the ass - to beat Chmmr consistently with Spathi too. Toasting Arilou with... most ships (go Shofixti) is excrutiatingly annoying and difficult - but it was worse in SC3 where Arilou would run away if you had the 'right' ship for the job. Speaking of SC3... Fortunately, it's -possible- to beat Utwig (and Yehat) here, as one in 20 or so shots seems to go in.

Druuge 4L

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Captain Smith
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Re: Winning "impossible" melee match-ups
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2003, 09:43:37 pm »

Umgah does quite a bit of damage to Chmmr if you can time the zips so he's away from the main laser....

And I am about 50-50 on destroying Chmmr with Pkunk...the key is getting in behind him and letting all your shot off...you usually end up with either none or one damage by doing that...the zapsats go for the shot instead of you...
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Shiver
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Re: Winning "impossible" melee match-ups
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2003, 05:24:58 am »

The Slylandro are a pretty big problem for most of the ships in the game. The precursor vessel could put these suckers down in droves, but it's actually quite difficult to take these out with most other vessels. And don't forget the Melnorme! They are monsterously frustrating thanks to their high accuracy and confusion ray. Has anyone even tried to play as either of these ships?

Unrelated update: Okay, I just beat a Chmmr with a Kohr-Ah. The trick is to fly away from him at an angle while shooting out blades and releasing them immediately. The Chmmr will follow you into the little surprises you leave for him. The Marauder is horribly slow ship, but this can be pulled off. Can anyone beat an Avatar with a Dreadnought?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2003, 07:37:33 am by Shiver » Logged
Captain Smith
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Re: Winning "impossible" melee match-ups
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2003, 07:37:27 am »

The Sylandro are indeed difficult.  Actually I think it's because of the speed - basically it's a really big fast moving target...I've found success with anything that can throw out a lot of damage in one spot...although if the converse happens, basically I go down with the Slylandro if I end up in front of the ship....speaking of ships I can beat with a Slylandro, I can usually do a pretty good job with the Ur-Quan Enslaver, Spathi, and Chenjesu...basically when I play this one I see it as a hit and run ship...use your speed to get in behind ship, hit them a few times, and then run either when power is gone or when they spin back around to be able to hit you...I'm not consistently successful with this ship (and some of them are devastating lethal against the Slylandro).

The Melnorme ship is one I'm really starting to like playing and am getting good enough to take out a few of the good comers, like Yehat, Utwig, and Chenjesu...I can also occasionally handle both Ur-Quan and the Chmmr OK...the key with playing this ship is you have to be completely dead accurate at full speed (slow down to be accurate you get hit)...the big problem I have right now is controlling the ship...it has a lot of thrust but very little control, much like the Mrrnmhrm Y-Form...it's best as a prusuit vehicle truthfully - exactly what a trading vessel would be like...basically you stun the ship, while building up your shot...you hit them with your shot and then play keep away while you recharge your batteries...often times the recharge coincides with the stun wearing off, so you need to stun the ship again and try to recharge....either it's this pattern (with the bigger ships) or firing off "junk shots" at the smaller faster ships (long series of smaller shots).  My main problem as I said is control and being accurate enough to hit my shots....between not having enough control to not get hit by blades (as an example), and getting hit anyway by a stunned ship, I usually don't last long right now.
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Re: Winning "impossible" melee match-ups
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2003, 08:55:43 pm »

Shiver:  ANY of the "capital" ships can take out ANY of the other capital ships (except the Utwig sometimes).  Very often its a matter of who gets the drop on who.
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Death 999
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Re: Winning "impossible" melee match-ups
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2003, 10:53:11 pm »

Of course, I have the horrible luck that about 1/5 of the time Dreadnaughts seem to have the VUX intruder device installed - that really doesn't help.

But yeah - Dreadnaught vs Chmmr is a little tricky - you want to get perfectly lined up so you can begin firing earlier - and so that your shots will block the laser. This is tricky, but if it works you get a CRUSHING victory - and if it fails you pretty much cancel.
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EnjoyTheSauce
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Re: Winning "impossible" melee match-ups
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2003, 07:13:08 am »

Actually, I believe I've heard that it is possible to beat Chmmr with Supox or Earthlings.

Earthling: The PD is supposedly ever so slightly longer ranged than the zapsat. I'd guess it's kind of like killing a cruiser with a skiff.

Supox: If you move toward them at full speed, 1 or 2 seeds can get through the zapsats. The trick is to keep doing this until you've killed a zapsat, at which point the rest of the battle is much easier. I think you can also do this with Spathi, but it's lots harder.

I haven't actually done either of these.
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Death 999
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Re: Winning "impossible" melee match-ups
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2003, 10:57:45 pm »

Supox vs chmmr is a little tricky but quite certain - the reverse thrust is nearly powerful enough to keep away. When you get a little too close for comfort, push hard to the side then release special to loop around and gain distance, then try again.

Save your shots for when you have a full battery, and line up with the side on which the zapsats are coming instead of going. Then shoot and you'll get one or two shots in on that zapsat. If possible, keep track of it and concentrate your fire. Once one of the sats is down taking down the ship is easy easy easy. Still, you need to KEEP OUT OF RANGE...
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Re: Winning "impossible" melee match-ups
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2003, 08:21:18 am »

Today I managed to beat the Sylandro with the Spathi in game. At first I baited it so the probe would follow me and laid off the speed, once following I released BUTT missiles like there was no tomorrow, when I ran out of energy advanced to the rear so to speak, and repeated. I think I lost about 5 crew.
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Re: Winning "impossible" melee match-ups
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2003, 06:21:50 pm »

But any human player worth his salt wouldn't allow his androsynth to be beaten by an orz like that.
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Re: Winning "impossible" melee match-ups
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2003, 09:45:10 am »

Quote
But any human player worth his salt wouldn't allow his androsynth to be beaten by an orz like that.

Guess that means I'm not worth much salt... Sad

I really don't like flying the Androsynth Guardian.  Actually, I didn't really think the Orz-Andy match-up was so one-sided.  I'm fairly shocked to see people having so much trouble to defeat Andies using the Nemesis.  I just lure the enemy into my tailpipe and unleash some marine and cannon fury...  anyways, maybe I'm just battling bad opponents, which is usually the case because I enjoy winning.   Grin
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Re: Winning "impossible" melee match-ups
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2003, 11:48:52 am »

It's so good to be able to finally discuss effective strategies with other good players out there, since generally I was able to easily defeat anyone I played.  Smiley

Back when I played the game regularly against my friends, my favorite ship turned out to be the Utwig.  Not only does it pretty much dominate every opponent you face in the single player game, it is very effective against most ships in the game.  However.... I'll let the secrets out here.... the most difficult/annoying match-ups for the Utwig.  (against my Utwig playing style at least).

Androsynth:  The comet can't be shielded, making this fight very tough.  From what I remember, this one is anybody's fight and the winner usually barely comes out on top.

Chenjesu:  This is the most difficult match for the Utwig by far IMO.  If the Chenjesu can get out a DOGGIE probe at the beginning of the match and keep them coming at the Utwig, eventually one will hit.  Since the Utwig's shield power doesn't regenerate, once it is all drained it is pretty much helpless.  Plus the normal shots are difficult to shield if they shatter near you.... you don't know for certain if one of the shards will hit you and quite often you end up wasting your battery power attempting to shield them.

Melnorme: Annoying fight since the rainbow shot prevents the Utwig from shielding.  In addition to that, this ship's shots are faster than most other ships', making them more difficult to shield against even if you haven't taken a rainbow shot.

Orz:  Yes, this CAN be a tough fight for the Utwig if the Orz player knows what he is doing.  I remember getting into the situation several times where my choices were to try to shield to keep the little invader guys from entering my ship (thus wasting my battery power) or simply letting them in.  Shielding while the invader guys hit you simply bounces them off of you and doesn't give you any battery power back.

Shofixti: Ok I'd usually win this fight, but it was annoying anyway since I couldn't shield the self-destruct and would usually lose half of my crew.

Slylandro: This one was really freakin' tough since the lightning shot only does 1 crew member worth of damage... it was almost impossible to even maintain the same level of battery power.  I would always leave this fight with less battery power, crew, or with a blown-up ship.

Syreen:  Very annoying fight.  Can't prevent your crew from being sucked out, and you have to get close to be in weapon range.

Utwig:  Self-explanatory.  One of you is going to die!


Against any other ship, the Utwig should be able to come out taking NO damage in the fight.  They'll be my favorite until someone shows me some more effective techniques for taking them out.
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