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Author Topic: The Syreen vs. Mycon plot doesn't work...  (Read 9930 times)
VPK
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The Syreen vs. Mycon plot doesn't work...
« on: March 11, 2003, 03:14:05 am »

I'm having problems getting the Syreen plot played through. When I find the egg fragments, Talana asks me to find the ships. When I find the ships, the game seems to skip some dialogue (such as thank-yous for finding the ships etc.) and goes directly into explaining the plot about how to get revenge on the Mycon.

When I fly to Juffo-Wup, I do have the dialogue option where I can tell them about the system to which they can spread. They only tell me to leave as usual, and they do not seem to take the advice (they are not moving on the Starmap, nor are they departing the Beta Brahe I). I cannot give the message to any Mycon other than in the Juffo-Wup planet dialogue.

I admit that I have killed a few Mycon ships earlier in the game. Can this cause the problem, or is it a bug?
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Nic.
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Re: The Syreen vs. Mycon plot doesn't work...
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2003, 03:29:23 am »

I've said it in Bugzilla and I'll say it again here:  I think I know why this keeps coming up.  In the PC version, the Mycon introduce themselves at Beta Brahe with this dialogue:

Quote
This is a special place
filled with Juffo-Wup.
But it is not the source.
Juffo-Wup springs forth from 629.1, 220.8.
We must not allow this place to be soiled by the Non.

...and when you attempt to tell the Beta Brahe fleet about Organon, they respond:

Quote
We do not interpret the will of Juffo-Wup.
Only the source is so empowered.
Until instructed otherwise, Juffo-Wup requires that we remain here.

Since most players of UQM are probably refugees of the PC (rather than 3DO) version, it stands to reason that (back in the day) they all used these "gimmes" to find out about the location of the Mycon homeworld, and get suitably confused when it isn't there in UQM.

No samples for the above lines of dialogue seem to have been recorded.  As such, the current behaviour probably tracks the 3DO version, but it does not track the PC version.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2003, 03:34:12 am by Nic. » Logged
Marlon
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Re: The Syreen vs. Mycon plot doesn't work...
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2003, 03:43:11 am »

Yes the exact same thing happened to me too. Was playing UQM v0.2  The mycons will never go to the planet I tell them to breed in. Is it possible to finish the game without the artifact I would be able to get from mycon homeworld? Or did anyone had this problem before and how did they solve it? I've come so far and dont wanna get stuck here cause of a bug. Please help out. Thanks
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Re: The Syreen vs. Mycon plot doesn't work...
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2003, 05:31:48 am »

What he's saying is, you can do it - just go to their actual homeworld. Without being told where it is, it'll take some looking or a spoiler, but it's not too far from Beta Brahe.
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Re: The Syreen vs. Mycon plot doesn't work...
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2003, 10:26:24 am »

By the way, do the Syreen ever mention where their homeworld, Syra, was? AFAIK, in the PC version you get Syra's name in our star/planet number terminology when you ask Talana about Syra, but I see no mention of it in UQM. Is this another difference between PC and 3DO SC2?
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Nic.
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Re: The Syreen vs. Mycon plot doesn't work...
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2003, 02:25:59 pm »

Nope, in the "What was Syra Like?" response, the PC version gives you this "extra" bit of dialogue:

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You would call our world Beta Copernicus I... we called it Syra.
You may wonder about our relationship with the Mycon, who now control that area of space.
When we lived on Syra, their sphere of influence was much smaller.
We never laid eyes on a Mycon until we met them in combat during the War.
But back to our beloved Syra.

I suspected a while back that they pared down some "superfluous" bits of the script in order to keep costs for voice actors down and space requirements lower.  The Mycon/Syreen subplot would seem to be the only one that has been perceptably affected by this, most of the other missing bits are simply "flavour", e.g., the Melnorme talking about the Meta-chron, or can de derived elsewhere, e.g., the Arilou explaining what the Talking Pet is for.

In the 3DO version of the game, nobody mentions where the Mycon homeworld is; in fact the Earth Starbase Commander claims it's in the Brahe constellation; which would go a long way towards explaining the confusion.

There's no easy way out of this problem.  There's no dialogue recorded for these lines, which means if you restored the PC subtitles you'd have mismatched dialogue, which would generate tenfold more complaints than the current situation; and I seriously doubt you could just call up the voice actors 10 years later and have them record a few lines for you in order to make everything match.  Re-recording the dialogue with a new voice actor altogether is a possibility, but would likely disappoint all five of the people who played the 3DO version Tongue
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Re: The Syreen vs. Mycon plot doesn't work...
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2003, 07:06:54 pm »

We could have the computer tell you that certain coordinates were transmitted at the end of the conversation... sort of like at the beginning of the Orz transmission. Then we wouldn't have to re-record everything.
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Re: The Syreen vs. Mycon plot doesn't work...
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2003, 08:48:33 pm »

With all these minor differences in dialogue between various versions (some of which affect gameplay, like the ones mentioned here), I'm starting to wonder whether we should support two different versions of the game: original PC dialogue (no speech available) and 3DO dialogue (3DO speech, text corrected to match speech). In this case, a player using the PC version would get additional hints but no speech, while the 3DO player gets speech but loses the stuff that wasn't recorded.

Somehow, I suspect someone has already thought of this, though.
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Re: The Syreen vs. Mycon plot doesn't work...
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2003, 08:42:47 pm »

I've had this problem too.  I assumed it was a bug with 0.2 but I see that Beta Brahne (or whatever) isn't their homeworld.  I'll look elsewhere.

Since there are discrepancies between 3D0 and PC then perhaps this still is a bug.  I'd hope that they fix this in 0.3
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Re: The Syreen vs. Mycon plot doesn't work...
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2003, 03:05:14 am »

Ahh whatever, if theres somethin wrong with the game, blame it on a bug  Roll Eyes
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Re: The Syreen vs. Mycon plot doesn't work...
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2003, 08:03:09 am »

Here's another option...

Since it would be difficult to insert the homeworld locations without actual speech, the game could be changed such that the player would not actually have to travel to the Mycon homeworld to ask about the Shattered Worlds or to direct them to Organon.  Instead, they could converse with _any_ Mycon for this.

This would allow new users to be able to finish the game without outside help and without inserting new speech.  But, it's a change of the game itself, which I don't think everyone would want.

Just a suggestion.
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Re: The Syreen vs. Mycon plot doesn't work...
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2003, 01:15:11 pm »

Wouldn't they still have to keep track of the Mycon stationed @ Beta Brahe after the whole "Organon" migration? (making sure that after you send the Mycon on their way, that you don't go back to Beta Brahe and only find the "You should go to Organon" option instead of the "Why aren't you at Organon" option)

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Re: The Syreen vs. Mycon plot doesn't work...
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2003, 01:35:47 pm »

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Since it would be difficult to insert the homeworld locations without actual speech, the game could be changed such that the player would not actually have to travel to the Mycon homeworld to ask about the Shattered Worlds or to direct them to Organon.  Instead, they could converse with _any_ Mycon for this.

Alternatively, the Beta Brahe Mycons could be made to respond to being told about Organon in the same way as the Mycon on their homeworld. This would remove the need for finding the Mycon homeworld, require no additional speech, but still not make things too easy by allowing any Mycon to receive the message about Organon.

However, being able to tell any Mycon about Organon would make sense; surely they must be able to communicate with their homeworld.

I still feel that the cryptic 3DO version response at Beta Brahe suits the Mycon better, even though it makes the game a lot harder. Not being given the slightest hint of where to find the Supox is IMHO worse.
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Spoiler
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2003, 02:22:18 pm »

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Is it possible to finish the game without the artifact I would be able to get from mycon homeworld?
No, it is not possible to solve your quest without having the Mycon removed from Beta Brahe.

BTW: This is (as mentioned) not a bug, simply a missing reference in the text of the Mycon. (Hey, Actors can forget text sometimes. Expecially if they are on cocaine as the Mycon must be to speak this kind of text.) See in Nic.s' first post in this thread to find your answer.
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Re: Spoiler
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2003, 02:33:30 pm »

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No, it is not possible to solve your quest without having the Mycon removed from Beta Brahe.


Technically it is possible, if you wait until the point where the Korh-Ah win the war and start going around killing everyone.  You can pickup the sun device then.
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