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Topic: I could just puke! (Read 24562 times)
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ErekLich
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One Ring to rule them all, eh you know the rest.
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[sigh...] People are criticized for speaking, because, in many cases, the criticizer is a twit who doesn't realize that free speech means ALL speech...
As for war protesting, well... there is, in my opinion, a fine line... I agree that it is possible to be against a war and still support the troops. The problem comes when your anti-war protest (whether meant to be anti-troop or not) lowers morale. Also, during the vietnam war many of the anti-war protests WERE "anti-troops" thanks to the Viet Cong's tactic of using civilian garb, which led to soldiers shooting civilians... I think perhaps the vocal "anti-anti-war protestors" are still thinking of that, and not realizing that it is a different war... (of course some anti-war protestors have the same problem!)
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Oh God, please don't let me die today! Tomorrow would be SO much better!
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Death 999
Global Moderator
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We did. You did. Yes we can. No.
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The people who oppose others' free expression aren't true patriots, but self aggrandizing idealogues who drape themselves with the dignity of the American flag to spread their agendas*. True patriots want to tell people what they think, yes... and they want to hear what the others think, so that the government can truly be by the people, not by the loudest shouters.
*Note that I don't insult the agendas, since it's fallacious to think that if an agenda has some bad followers that the agenda itself is necessarily bad.
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ErekLich
*Many bubbles*
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One Ring to rule them all, eh you know the rest.
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Iadoga: you are taking what I said completely out of context. I was looking at the UN perspective on Iraq when I said that, NOT the American perspective.
The United Nations ordered Iraq to disarm. Saddam therefore defied the UN by not disarming.
I agree with you, economic sanctions did not work. It takes something like a war to remove Saddam. You have defeated your own argument.
As for Oil: That argument is overdone, and I'm quite frankly getting sick of it. If anyone has oil interest in this case it is France and Germany who have very large oil contracts with Saddam's regime.
And finally, as to the 12 year old: Ask the thousands killed by Saddam what they did wrong. Yeah, war sucks and people die. But I'd rather have a thousand die today to remove Saddam than a hundred die each and every day living under Saddam. (and, yes, those numbers are made up, but they prove my point.)
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Death: I tend to agree with you, however I think free speech does have some limits -- to use an overused example, I can swing my fist wherever I want, but my right to do that stops at your face. I'm not sure whether anti-war protests cross the line or not. I'm also very glad to see at least one other person in the world who doesn't condemn a group based one one of its followers! 
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Oh God, please don't let me die today! Tomorrow would be SO much better!
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Lukipela
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The Ancient One
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You know stounedi, there is nothing that is easier to do than just grab a general attitude and go. We don't live in a black and white world here, and as such, there are many factors that have had different effects on the attack in Iraq. To simply say "It's all about the oil" is a gross oversimplification of a complex set of events. Yes, there is oil involved, yes there is a lot of feeling that the US wouldn't have gone through this much trouble had there not been oil. This doesn't mean that is the true reason however, and even if it is A true reason, it doesn't necessarily mean that it''s the ONLY reason for this war.
Ereklich and GM, what you're actuially discussing re the oil is kind of a no-victory. Before the war, France at least (possibly Germany? This I don't know), had large contracts, so it could be cynically argued that France was opposed to the war only because of the Oil Issue. However, if we follow this path we may just as well argue that since american companys are probably going to get the new contracts afetr the war, the US attacked only for the oil. While these factors may well have had some influence on those making decision, I seriously doubt they were large factors in any way.
Btw. GM, excellent example of the UN there! Reading it brought a hufge smile to my face. The principle is quite the same really... So I suppsoe I'd be on the side that wanted to get the umpires some sort of "bodyguard" to help inforce some decisions...
In regards to the Media thing. Yes, of course american media gives a completely differnt picture from european, and probably Arab media gives a third picture as well. However, bjust because they are different doesn't mean one of them is necessarily right, or wrong for that matter. The best you can do is watch them all, and try to find some sort of middle road. They're all propaganda fro crying out loud, you can't take them at face value.
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What's up doc?
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) ignored the constitutional way to declare war... I mean that we are, in effect, now at war...
)