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News: Paul & Fred have reached a settlement with Stardock!

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Author Topic: My take on Stardock  (Read 111104 times)
Elestan
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Re: My take on Stardock
« Reply #960 on: July 16, 2018, 03:34:20 am »

If you want to boycott it more effectively, get players to leave negative reviews on all platforms it might be released on and on game blogs (which will require researching them) while mentioning how Star Control 2 / UQM was the best of the series in order to garner reputation to P&F.

But, the timing needs to be somewhat staggered so that it doesn't appear intentional, which it likely wouldn't be anyway since it takes time to contact and beseech many people. This is also why it's important that only "players" give it negative reviews instead of random people since the strategy would be able to fall back on the credibility of the fact that people who actually played the game are just expressing their lack of enjoyment for it. It would also be important to maintain that credibility in the instance that the negative reviews were used as evidence in a legal dispute.

I think the point of a boycott is that you encourage people not to buy a product because of the actions of its maker, regardless of whether its a good product or not.  I would hope that any reviews people leave of SC:O are honest, even if they ask people not to buy the game due to Stardock's legal aggression.
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CommanderShepard
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Re: My take on Stardock
« Reply #961 on: July 16, 2018, 03:56:30 am »

If you want to boycott it more effectively, get players to leave negative reviews on all platforms it might be released on and on game blogs (which will require researching them) while mentioning how Star Control 2 / UQM was the best of the series in order to garner reputation to P&F.

But, the timing needs to be somewhat staggered so that it doesn't appear intentional, which it likely wouldn't be anyway since it takes time to contact and beseech many people. This is also why it's important that only "players" give it negative reviews instead of random people since the strategy would be able to fall back on the credibility of the fact that people who actually played the game are just expressing their lack of enjoyment for it. It would also be important to maintain that credibility in the instance that the negative reviews were used as evidence in a legal dispute.

I think the point of a boycott is that you encourage people not to buy a product because of the actions of its maker, regardless of whether its a good product or not.  I would hope that any reviews people leave of SC:O are honest, even if they ask people not to buy the game due to Stardock's legal aggression.

Negative reviews encourage people *not* to buy a product, which seems to be the goal that was stated, that people want, and maybe I can help in that or maybe not. It wouldn't be dishonest just to ask people who had a negative experience with it to report that experience in the form of a review, and game blogs will make their own assessment and weigh it with other reviews which would help snowball the effect. One could also mention in the reviews themselves not to buy the game due to the dispute since FP have lost money from that anyway as a result of Stardock's negative marketing towards them. All of this however is contingent upon SCO actually being released in some form before the dispute is settled. Otherwise, you can't boycott something that can't be bought.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 06:42:40 am by CommanderShepard » Logged
Pyro411
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Re: My take on Stardock
« Reply #962 on: July 16, 2018, 04:02:48 pm »

*sigh* ahh where to start, so the Trolls / Social Justice Warriors / etc have come out of the woodwork even more...

Let's start off with this.  Review bombing / public calls for boycotts are childish tactics usually instigated by somebody who has a vested interest in a certain outcome.  Public boycotts of Star Control Origins points to Paul and Fred or somebody intimately involved with the issue at hand has either directly or indirectly inscited this action.  The same could be said about if there was an equal level of pushback against Paul and Fred with calls to boycott their game(s) going forward and/or their attempts to raise money.  Also, note I am not pointing a finger at Paul / Fred / Brad / Etc as I know this equally could be the work of somebody who would have no qualm in SWATing a person because they're losing a match on a ranked game somewhere.

If you're legitimately worried about the outcome of the legal battle going on, I would suggest keep your eyes and ears open and place SC:O on your Steam/GoG/Etc Wishlist and use your own judgement on either buying or not and don't fall into the mob mentality in either direction.  Now if you do wind up buying the game well after the Sept 20th release Tongue No I won't go easy on you in Fleet Battles LoL

Another side note... Legal battles like this are not uncommon, we generally don't see much of them as most people don't immediately publicly blog about it and tend to keep it under wraps until the court case has been settled in one fashion or another or they just bury it.

If you want a good example of what happens during issues with Trademark infringement look at what happened with Pokemon Uranium. 
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Elestan
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Re: My take on Stardock
« Reply #963 on: July 16, 2018, 04:22:14 pm »

Review bombing / public calls for boycotts are childish tactics usually instigated by somebody who has a vested interest in a certain outcome.  Public boycotts of Star Control Origins points to Paul and Fred or somebody intimately involved with the issue at hand has either directly or indirectly inscited this action.

Hmm...while it is certainly possible for boycotts to be organized on dishonest grounds, that does not mean that most boycotts happen that way.  I have certainly not heard any suggestion of P&F trying to organize one.  However, there is ample evidence of Stardock's own actions and statements getting people upset enough that they might try to do so.  If a boycott does happen, I would suggest that Stardock look at itself, rather than casting about for an illicit conspiracy.
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Re: My take on Stardock
« Reply #964 on: July 16, 2018, 04:27:13 pm »

It'd be best just to let Star Control: Origins fly on its own merits.  There's no need to review bomb or boycott it.  That way, whatever happens with the reviews and sales of Star Control: Origins is its own doing, then it could said to have done good or bad without significant influence outside of Stardock's efforts.  If you don't care too much for Stardock or Star Control: Origins, just don't mention them anymore.  Bad press is still press at the end of the day and gets people aware of the product and company.  No press is far more damaging to a company of Stardock's size, since if no one is talking about your game, good or bad, no one knows your game is around to even buy it.

Just pretend it doesn't exist...  (Many of us have done it to many 3rd installments before...)  And focus on other things.
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Pyro411
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Re: My take on Stardock
« Reply #965 on: July 16, 2018, 05:06:08 pm »

Hmm...while it is certainly possible for boycotts to be organized on dishonest grounds, that does not mean that most boycotts happen that way.  I have certainly not heard any suggestion of P&F trying to organize one.  However, there is ample evidence of Stardock's own actions and statements getting people upset enough that they might try to do so.  If a boycott does happen, I would suggest that Stardock look at itself, rather than casting about for an illicit conspiracy.

Elestan, this is where you have to read between the lines.  I'm not saying Paul and/or Fred or some 3rd party working on their behalf is who is organizing the boycott, but very well could be inciting them with their carefully worded posts... or this could just be the work of "Trolls" or essentially those who get joy in seeing things being destroyed just to suit their desires.

Take their GoFundME, in it they call Stardock or more specifically Brad Wardell the "Crimson Corporation" this alone is an attack for people who are fans of the series as those who know the lore know that the Crimson Corporation is a gathering of ruthless slave traders.  Directly followed by FUD saying Stardock is attempting to quash any attempts to make a new game and strip them of their previous achievements, which would rile up a different set of people who didn't have the details of what's going on in the lawsuit.

Now the question is, where are you getting this "Stardock casting about for an illicit conspiracy"  I don't work for Stardock and everything is of my own observation which anyone can see if they detach themselves from both sides and look at things rationally.

Now here's a really good example for you on what's going on.

Paul and Fred are on a soap box telling their story to anyone who will listen.  It changes the hearts of some and they're recruited to the cause, however when those people start talking the message distorts further and further as it spreads out until it turns into a riot... then you get damage inflicted because if it, not only from those who were supporting Paul & Fred but also from those looting and rioting because they want to destroy stuff even if they don't support the cause that brought people together.  This is what publicly calling for a boycott is, plain and simple.
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CommanderShepard
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Re: My take on Stardock
« Reply #966 on: July 16, 2018, 05:35:30 pm »

usually instigated by somebody who has a vested interest in a certain outcome.
You mean like the people who would actually play the game?

Public boycotts of Star Control Origins points to Paul and Fred
On it's own, no, it doesn't in any way without direct evidence of such, and I don't see them here telling anyone to boycott SCO. It seems like you're underestimating just how subtle such a tactic would be because you don't even need to call for a boycott to make Stardock look bad, you can simply mention how they may have took the rights away from the original creators since that is to be disputed. The public tends to support the underdog and especially original creators, so any flaw someone deems with SCO can be attributed to an abuse of a large company that chose short term profits over the quality of the game.

Why is this game company advertising completely unrelated utility apps right next to their games? That's clearly not what they should be focusing on as a game company. Successful game companies aren't afraid of putting all their eggs in one basket because they know their focus on games is what pays off on a gaming platform, so the fact that they're blatantly advertising those apps suggests they lack the confidence that they will make the best games and are mitigating losses from that. I don't think a single game of theirs has made the top 10 for any year, and that's after 25 years. Their best game is probably Sins of the Solar Empire and that's already 10 years old.
Another side note... Legal battles like this are not uncommon, we generally don't see much of them as most people don't immediately publicly blog about it and tend to keep it under wraps until the court case has been settled in one fashion or another or they just bury it.

That's only if people settle out of court, which is almost always the first solution legal parties attempt. I'm sure they tried, but they couldn't come to an agreement right away so the case when to court. Actual court cases tend to be subject to public outcry especially if it's an open court, but settlements are done in a private room.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 06:45:29 am by CommanderShepard » Logged
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Re: My take on Stardock
« Reply #967 on: July 16, 2018, 09:56:35 pm »

Hmm...while it is certainly possible for boycotts to be organized on dishonest grounds, that does not mean that most boycotts happen that way.  I have certainly not heard any suggestion of P&F trying to organize one.  However, there is ample evidence of Stardock's own actions and statements getting people upset enough that they might try to do so.  If a boycott does happen, I would suggest that Stardock look at itself, rather than casting about for an illicit conspiracy.

Elestan, this is where you have to read between the lines.  I'm not saying Paul and/or Fred or some 3rd party working on their behalf is who is organizing the boycott, but very well could be inciting them with their carefully worded posts... or this could just be the work of "Trolls" or essentially those who get joy in seeing things being destroyed just to suit their desires.

Or I'm actually a fan who was playing Star Control 2 before these forums ever existed, and I'm legitimately pissed that someone I thought of as an otherwise OK guy is now trying to swindle Paul and Fred out of their property. Nobody called for a boycott, not even me. I merely mentioned the possibility and that it probably wouldn't be effective anyway since most people haven't even heard of SCO outside of these forums, and those who have already have a uniformly negative opinion. It's neither my fault nor my problem that Stardock's actions have alienated what few people would've bought their cheap knockoff. There's no grand conspiracy to deprive them of profit, but merely individual consumers reacting to Stardock's horrible behavior.
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Re: My take on Stardock
« Reply #968 on: July 16, 2018, 09:59:04 pm »

I don't know about many of you, but actively inciting a review-bomb on this forum should be a bannable offense.

It doesn't matter how you feel about Stardock, the UQM forums is not the place to incite witchhunts and brigades.

Do you think Stardock would take it kindly if it were to find out a review bomb started right here?
Do you think it would just let this forum stick around after being that hostile?

Other people in this thread are worried about Stardock shutting UQM down, which Brad far and away does not want to do, so don't become a reason for it.
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Re: My take on Stardock
« Reply #969 on: July 16, 2018, 10:08:50 pm »

I don't know about many of you, but actively inciting a review-bomb on this forum should be a bannable offense.

It doesn't matter how you feel about Stardock, the UQM forums is not the place to incite witchhunts and brigades.

Do you think Stardock would take it kindly if it were to find out a review bomb started right here?
Do you think it would just let this forum stick around after being that hostile?

Other people in this thread are worried about Stardock shutting UQM down, which Brad far and away does not want to do, so don't become a reason for it.

Nobody said anything about review bombing them. Nobody said anything about inciting a witchhunt or a brigade. In fact, I deliberately said NOT to do it because IT WOULDN'T BE EFFECTIVE and PEOPLE ALREADY HAVE A BAD OPINION OF SC:O. Twisting peoples' words doesn't exactly endear them to your position, nor will it make them want to discuss MegaMod.  Grin
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Re: My take on Stardock
« Reply #970 on: July 16, 2018, 10:14:24 pm »

I don't know about many of you, but actively inciting a review-bomb on this forum should be a bannable offense.

Again, in case you ignored it the first two times, it's not a review bomb as long as you're actually using the testimony of people who actually didn't enjoy the game. 99% of people never leave a review, so all that would be happening is bringing people's negative experiences to light and game blogs will give their own assessment independent of whatever we might want from them. So to find relevant blogs, we would have to find those that have already reviewed UQM which can then make the comparison to SCO and determine which has a better storyline. As for mentioning the boycott, if you actually play the game and are actually disappointed with it, then there's nothing wrong with pointing that out as a solution. It would also be fine to just voice your opinion on reddit and see what the response is.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 10:18:03 pm by CommanderShepard » Logged
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Re: My take on Stardock
« Reply #971 on: July 16, 2018, 10:24:48 pm »

I don't know about many of you, but actively inciting a review-bomb on this forum should be a bannable offense.

Again, in case you ignored it the first two times, it's not a review bomb as long as you're actually using the testimony of people who actually didn't enjoy the game. 99% of people never leave a review, so all that would be happening is bringing people's negative experiences to light and game blogs will give their own assessment independent of whatever we might want from them. So to find relevant blogs, we would have to find those that have already reviewed UQM which can then make the comparison to SCO and determine which has a better storyline. As for mentioning the boycott, if you actually play the game and are actually disappointed with it, then there's nothing wrong with pointing that out as a solution. It would also be fine to just voice your opinion on reddit and see what the response is.

But to what end?

You may think it's clever saying, "We'll get people who played SCO but haven't left reviews" but how will you even know?

Then you're talking about influencing game blogs that have reviewed SCII/UQM in the past.

If the answer to the first question is, "To hurt Stardock" then you need to plan that shit somewhere else before you get this place in some real trouble.
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Re: My take on Stardock
« Reply #972 on: July 16, 2018, 11:19:12 pm »

But to what end?
As long as the game exists in a worse state than it would have with F&P.

You may think it's clever saying, "We'll get people who played SCO but haven't left reviews" but how will you even know?
By asking people to review it, by playing the game for yourself, by contacting game blogs, by discussing it on reddit and bringing up posts on imgur. The actual review sites are where you need to argue the integrity of the reviews. But places like reddit and imgur, it's acceptable to post your own opinionated piece about how you think a larger company that lacks artistic integrity is taking away the rights from creative writers and ruining an already damaged franchise. Marketing is about momentum, not position, so what matters at what speed the campaign is attracting attention, not how much it's attracted in the past. It's a double edged sword because on one hand, it gives the option to make a statement at any moment, but on the other hand, the workload needs to be maintained.

Then you're talking about influencing game blogs that have reviewed SCII/UQM in the past.
The fans of SC2 aren't only on these forums, most people who have played the game agree it's one of the top sci fi games ever. All you would be asking them to do is to review SCO and compare it with the quality of content in UQM which is entirely up to their discretion. Since so many are already confident P&F are better for the job, we can expect that the majority of blogs who review it will reach the same conclusion.

If the answer to the first question is, "To hurt Stardock" then you need to plan that shit somewhere else before you get this place in some real trouble.
No, it's not illegal in any remote way, shape or form to voice a personal opinion about a company based on facts, nor to contact game blogs, nor to ask people to leave honest reviews.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 06:47:25 am by CommanderShepard » Logged
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Re: My take on Stardock
« Reply #973 on: July 16, 2018, 11:23:06 pm »

I see nothing in the definition of a review bomb that says it has to be dishonest.

People who have opinions about the game itself from direct experience should honestly report those opinions to those who lack it. People who have opinions about Stardock in general may also give those opinions. Attempting to increase the rate of negative opinions being expressed would not be dishonest at the individual level, but it would be dishonest in aggregate, much as a focus group chosen with bias will present a biased view of general opinions even if each member of the group is honest. I think honesty is more important than spite.

On the other end of things, I see no reason for F&P to do this - they are not directly harmed by SC:O, and if it came out that they did, it would be very bad for them. This suggests that they aren't doing it. And calling their legal adversaries names does not count as inciting a review bomb.


TL;DR: we shouldn't organize bias in SC:O reviews. That's dumb and bad.
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CommanderShepard
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Re: My take on Stardock
« Reply #974 on: July 16, 2018, 11:37:46 pm »

Is it organized bias or is it just the fan base voicing their concerns like they always have, just in a more pronounced way?

I suppose though the best focus right now is for F&P to attract new members for their defense funding. p6014 would have helped with this as it would have brought the series into the contemporary spotlight for new members to take interest in. There's also Patreon but it would take work for them to set that up, it's not something I could do on their behalf since it requires the personal touch of the actual writers/artists. So like I suggested elsewhere, making a revamped game isn't a bad idea since it hasn't actually been decided yet whether the original content is no longer under the GNU license.

In a more pressing issue, we should also think about a way to bring their fundraising to light on other platforms besides some random website that won't even appear in the 50th page of a google search. For this we have reddit, imgur, buzzfeed, quora, 4chan, facebook and more, and then every game blog that's given SC2 a positive review has a chance of being interested in writing an article to attract attention. Toys for Bob is also a subsidiary of Activision, and we have some access to Activision's player base as well and maybe point out F&P they also made Skylanders.

Without something to actually give the public besides a 20+ year old game (and until a revamped version is completed), the only way to get people interested is to show how Stardock possibly abused the creative rights of an acclaimed, smaller group of writers because that's what will speak to the public more than "we're fans of this 25 year old game, you should be too..."
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 06:49:06 am by CommanderShepard » Logged
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