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News: Paul & Fred have reached a settlement with Stardock!

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Author Topic: Stardock Litigation Discussion  (Read 47379 times)
CommanderShepard
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2018, 08:59:41 pm »

Paul and Fred are being sued personally. This lawsuit could cost them essentially their entire life's work, both their intellectual property, and their finances. The lawsuit could easily cost more than a million dollars. So even if they're millionaires, that's half of what they've been able to make in their life.

It's not even relevant to the lawsuit. It's just Stardock throwing stuff in, hoping to color the judge and the jury's perception of who Paul and Fred are: frauds who didn't make anything and have now launched a gofundme to swindle more people out of money they don't want to earn.

Anyone paying any amount of attention would see those attacks and draw more conclusions about Stardock for making them. But I wonder if an average gamer with no context would look at that and buy Stardock's narrative.

Some average gamers have only played Stardock's games and not the original SC games that included Fred and Paul's copyrighted content. That doesn't have much bearing on the actual case itself other than that maybe possibly Stardock can somehow back their claims Fred and Paul have been intentionally deceiving the public which just seems like grasping at straws when so many different random opinions are clearly involved, especially when Stardock itself has been far more effective in its marketing of this issue. What Stardock's claims surely do though is draw attention to Stardock's game and gets them pre-sales, so I do definitely see an economic incentive for Stardock to make intentionally dramatized claims.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 12:56:07 am by CommanderShepard » Logged
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2018, 09:52:09 pm »

I've seen lists that put Paul Reiche at an estimated net worth of 19 mil.  While Brad Wardell's is estimated 1.9 million.  Both as of 2018.
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CommanderShepard
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2018, 10:59:17 pm »

I've seen lists that put Paul Reiche at an estimated net worth of 19 mil.  While Brad Wardell's is estimated 1.9 million.  Both as of 2018.

But where do you "see" that though? That seems very clearly like private financial information, I haven't seen either Brad or Fred & Paul release information like that.
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Lakstoties
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2018, 11:30:31 pm »

I've seen lists that put Paul Reiche at an estimated net worth of 19 mil.  While Brad Wardell's is estimated 1.9 million.  Both as of 2018.

Sigh...  Does it really matter?  This just seems like a distraction from the important details of the situation.  Very similar to one of those useless details they throw into word problems or diversion topics that many political folks use.  It's a very superficial metric that simple does not matter in this situation.
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CommanderShepard
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2018, 11:45:48 pm »

I've seen lists that put Paul Reiche at an estimated net worth of 19 mil.  While Brad Wardell's is estimated 1.9 million.  Both as of 2018.

Sigh...  Does it really matter?  This just seems like a distraction from the important details of the situation.  Very similar to one of those useless details they throw into word problems or diversion topics that many political folks use.  It's a very superficial metric that simple does not matter in this situation.

Well in Stardock's complaint, Stardock actually calls out Fred and Paul for being rich (though I saw no evidence for it anyway), but it is still a very emotionally charged rhetoric nonetheless, I agree that it shouldn't matter to the alleged facts that Stardock owns their trademark and Fred and Paul own their copyright to their creative content.

In talking with Brad, I get the impression he thinks Fred and Paul haven't done any work of their own and thus they aren't creators and thus their copyright is invalid, but he seems to intentionally neglect mentioning that Fred and Paul have put up some of their original game design drafts on their blog.

https://www.dogarandkazon.com/sketchbook_1/

https://www.dogarandkazon.com/blog/2018/3/8/all-aboard-the-starship-discovery

https://www.dogarandkazon.com/blog/2018/3/13/starship-discovery-ii



« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 07:32:16 am by CommanderShepard » Logged
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #50 on: July 24, 2018, 12:22:19 am »

I've seen lists that put Paul Reiche at an estimated net worth of 19 mil.  While Brad Wardell's is estimated 1.9 million.  Both as of 2018.

I'd like to see a source on this. It seems like a very high estimate.


Quote from: Lakstoties
Sigh...  Does it really matter?  This just seems like a distraction from the important details of the situation.  Very similar to one of those useless details they throw into word problems or diversion topics that many political folks use.  It's a very superficial metric that simple does not matter in this situation.

It affects how much money I'm willing to donate to the legal defense fund. I would go to great lengths to try and stop another one of Brad's godawful 'apology' letters from being published, if that were about to happen due to lack of money. If Paul and Fred have more available funds than Stardock the company does, there shouldn't be a GoFundMe at all.
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CommanderShepard
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #51 on: July 24, 2018, 12:30:42 am »

It affects how much money I'm willing to donate to the legal defense fund.

I guess that's a fair point. If Fred and Paul were very rich as Stardock claims, it would probably negatively affect Fred and Paul's defense fund. I would feel less inclined to donate to them, though still ultimately do it just to assist in whatever resources they want to make their game.
Even if that were the case though, Fred and Paul do also claim to be paying out of their own pockets, whereas Stardock's legal fees seem to be mostly covered by insurance, so I feel Stardock could be hypocritical to bring up the subject.
I've seen for myself over the years that a lot fans tried to ask for themselves how they could better show or give support for Fred and Paul, so it would appear they simply gave an answer: the defense fund.  

I would go to great lengths to try and stop another one of Brad's godawful 'apology' letters from being published, if that were about to happen due to lack of money.
I don't understand the context for this. Why would you not want Brad to apologize for whatever it is you're referencing?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 07:33:27 am by CommanderShepard » Logged
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #52 on: July 24, 2018, 12:57:03 am »

I would go to great lengths to try and stop another one of Brad's godawful 'apology' letters from being published, if that were about to happen due to lack of money.
I don't understand the context for this. Why would you not want Brad to apologize for whatever it is you're referencing?

The sexual harassment case against Brad Wardell from a few years back ended with the victim (alleged, whatever) issuing a public apology letter to Brad. Brad's joke of a settlement offer to F&P also demands that they issue a similar public apology.
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CommanderShepard
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2018, 01:01:46 am »

I would go to great lengths to try and stop another one of Brad's godawful 'apology' letters from being published, if that were about to happen due to lack of money.
I don't understand the context for this. Why would you not want Brad to apologize for whatever it is you're referencing?

The sexual harassment case against Brad Wardell from a few years back ended with the victim (alleged, whatever) issuing a public apology letter to Brad. Brad's joke of a settlement offer to F&P also demands that they issue a similar public apology.

I seems pretty odd if Brad were to make fun of sexual harassment, I don't see any reason to think that would be his intention if he apologized for a completely separate legal issue. Although I guess I did bring up possible issues with assumptions of gender and masculinity in one of Stardock's games and it was quickly and aggressively dismissed by Stardock staff and/or supporters, but that doesn't speak for Brad himself. I think a CEO who tries to be as contemporary as him would probably keep up with the times and make an effort to move away from that kind of behavior.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 01:25:08 am by CommanderShepard » Logged
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2018, 01:41:18 am »

The sexual harassment case against Brad Wardell from a few years back ended with the victim (alleged, whatever) issuing a public apology letter to Brad. Brad's joke of a settlement offer to F&P also demands that they issue a similar public apology.

Oh, I wouldn't call it an apology; Brad complained vociferously about it being inaccurately called an apology.  And he's right; it wasn't an apology; it was a forced insincere endorsement.

Which is actually worse, in my book.  A forced apology is "just" a humiliation, but this would have required P&F to tell all of their fans how genuinely excited they were to have Brad continue their story.

That Brad would even propose forcing someone else to be so dishonest was one of the things that convinced me that his own integrity was sorely lacking.

I've seen lists that put Paul Reiche at an estimated net worth of 19 mil.  While Brad Wardell's is estimated 1.9 million.  Both as of 2018.
But where do you "see" that though? That seems very clearly like private financial information, I haven't seen either Brad or Fred & Paul release information like that.

I would also like to know the source on this.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 01:43:49 am by Elestan » Logged
CommanderShepard
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2018, 01:48:27 am »

Oh, I wouldn't call it an apology; Brad complained vociferously about it being inaccurately called an apology.  And he's right; it wasn't an apology; it was a forced insincere endorsement.

I feel like I'm misunderstanding something here. It seems very out of character for Brad to complain that his apology over sexual harassment allegations wasn't actually an apology, that just obviously sounds like something that would get him into more trouble and he would probably know that. Are you talking purely about the apology Stardock wants to receive from Fred and Paul? I don't understand why the two would have a connection.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 01:57:58 am by CommanderShepard » Logged
Elestan
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2018, 02:15:16 am »

Brad's joke of a settlement offer to F&P also demands that they issue a similar public apology.
Oh, I wouldn't call it an apology; Brad complained vociferously about it being inaccurately called an apology.  And he's right; it wasn't an apology; it was a forced insincere endorsement.

Which is actually worse, in my book.  A forced apology is "just" a humiliation, but this would have required P&F to tell all of their fans how genuinely excited they were to have Brad continue their story.

I feel like I'm misunderstanding something here.
I think you are.  Did you try following the link?

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Are you talking purely about the apology Stardock wants to receive from Fred and Paul?
I was, yes.

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I don't understand why the two would have a connection.
They are connected in that both instances show Brad attempting to force his litigation opponent to submit to coerced speech.
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CommanderShepard
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2018, 02:22:04 am »

I think you are.  Did you try following the link?
I see Fred and Paul are being asked for an apology in Stardock's complaint, but I don't know if that, on its own, is unreasonable given that it's a complex case and it is possible there are misunderstandings either side may have. Stardock clearly has a more aggressive stance, but asking for an apology alone isn't unreasonable.

They are connected in that both instances show Brad attempting to force his litigation opponent to submit to coerced speech.

I suppose I could see a loose connection that could set precedence for this possible coercion of Stardock's, but I more mean to ask why you hadn't produced actual credible references is for this sexual harassment allegation if it's true, because that's news to me and I don't think it's fair of me to make assumptions without seeing an actual report of it. It would still only be two points of data though, separated by years.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 07:37:20 am by CommanderShepard » Logged
Elestan
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2018, 03:06:19 am »

I see Fred and Paul are being asked for an apology in Stardock's complaint, but I don't know if that, on its own, is unreasonable given that it's a complex case and it is possible there are misunderstandings either side may have. Stardock clearly has a more aggressive stance, but asking for an apology alone isn't unreasonable if they are ruled correct in some of their claims.

As I said, it wasn't an apology; it was a requirement that P&F endorse Brad's ownership of the UQM story using a statement authored by Brad.  The intended effect of it, as best I can surmise, was to ensure that Brad's continuation of the UQM story would be accepted by the old fans as canonical, and to keep Paul from being able to disavow it as illegitimate.  Brad couldn't gain that legitimacy in the hearts and minds of the SC2 fans if he was viewed as having taken it by force, so he tried to coerce P&F into giving the fans the false impression that they were happy with the arrangement.

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They are connected in that both instances show Brad attempting to force his litigation opponent to submit to coerced speech.
I suppose I could see a loose connection that could set precedence for this coercion of Stardock's, but I more mean to ask where your actual credible reference is for this sexual harassment allegation, because that's news to me.

I'll leave that one to Shiver.
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CommanderShepard
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2018, 03:19:37 am »

As I said, it wasn't an apology; it was a requirement that P&F endorse Brad's ownership of the UQM story using a statement authored by Brad.

I could understand that then, it does explain why Brad said that UQM isn't actually safe.

The intended effect of it, as best I can surmise, was to ensure that Brad's continuation of the UQM story would be accepted by the old fans as canonical, and to keep Paul from being able to disavow it as illegitimate.  Brad couldn't gain that legitimacy in the hearts and minds of the SC2 fans if he was viewed as having taken it by force, so he tried to coerce P&F into giving the fans the false impression that they were happy with the arrangement.

I suppose that's possible, because when looking through the correspondence mentioned in Fred and Paul's countercomplaint, they claimed Brad was being misleading to the public by implying Fred and Paul were unofficially working with Stardock, which would have been a violation of Fred and Paul's alleged agreement with Activision, which, in the gaming industry, seems very likely to include a no-compete clause. So, Brad implying any work for a competing game company like Stardock might have actually gotten Fred and Paul in trouble with Activision and delayed Activision's permission for any development and announcement of content relating to Fred and Paul's sequel.

I'll leave that one to Shiver.
Even if they find it though, it doesn't seem like a very strong connection to this completely separate legal case. Bringing it up seems like the same kind of tactic Stardock itself would use to paint Fred and Paul as morally reprehensible. If they bring it up with that intention, then they are no more legitimate than the party they claim to oppose on that same moral basis.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 07:29:57 pm by CommanderShepard » Logged
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