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News: Paul & Fred have reached a settlement with Stardock!

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Author Topic: Stardock Litigation Discussion  (Read 53915 times)
Jeff Graw
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #480 on: January 02, 2019, 08:29:53 pm »

But I wonder how steam can continue to sell through "Humblebundle" when they took it down on their own site.... (since they should've stopped issueing steam keys to humblebundle at the same time).

Technically Valve/Steam isn't selling Origins or anything else through Humblebundle, they just provide the infrastructure that gets used after the sale.
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Krulle
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #481 on: January 02, 2019, 10:48:26 pm »

That would mean steam sold keys in advance to humblebundle who now sells them on. While as far as I understand how humblebundle works, humblebundle only gets the key once they sella copy of the game, which means steam sells the key (to humblebundle) the moment a user wants the transaction with humblebundle.
Anyway, at some time in the future, this may come up in court too, and might result in steam being found to wilfully infringe after having received a DMCA notice....

It may be I am wrong, and humblebundle is selling off a stack of steam keys they bought months ago....
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Jeff Graw
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #482 on: January 03, 2019, 02:11:53 am »

That would mean steam sold keys in advance to humblebundle who now sells them on. While as far as I understand how humblebundle works, humblebundle only gets the key once they sella copy of the game, which means steam sells the key (to humblebundle) the moment a user wants the transaction with humblebundle.

Bearing in mind that it's entirely possible (and even quite likely) that Valve and Humblebundle have some sort of specific arrangement, that's not the typical way things work when it comes to selling a product outside the Steam storefront that still utilises Steam services. I'm afraid I can't go into more detail than that since I'm weary of inadvertently overstepping the bounds of NDA.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 02:14:41 am by Jeff Graw » Logged
WibbleNZ
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #483 on: January 03, 2019, 05:07:17 am »

But I wonder how steam can continue to sell through "Humblebundle" when they took it down on their own site.... (since they should've stopped issueing steam keys to humblebundle at the same time).

Technically Valve/Steam isn't selling Origins or anything else through Humblebundle, they just provide the infrastructure that gets used after the sale.

Valve needs to "respond expeditiously to remove, or disable access to, the material that is claimed to be infringing or to be the subject of infringing activity" to retain safe harbor, not merely stop selling it. Of course, P&F's latest claim accuses Valve and GoG of failing to meet pretty much any of the conditions for safe harbor, let alone all of them.
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metamorphosis
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #484 on: January 03, 2019, 11:48:21 pm »

Dogan and Kazon speak:
https://www.dogarandkazon.com/blog/2019/1/2/injunction-junction-court-instruction

Unfortunately I think this hurts the fans, but I understand that it's (probably) intended to give F&P the upper hand in negotiations going forward.
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metamorphosis
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #485 on: January 03, 2019, 11:56:37 pm »

But I wonder how steam can continue to sell through "Humblebundle" when they took it down on their own site.... (since they should've stopped issueing steam keys to humblebundle at the same time).

No longer available through Humble Bundle, as of today.
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Krulle
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #486 on: January 04, 2019, 03:34:14 pm »

Ah. Thanks.
Q: another DMCA, ordid they run out of keys, or did Steam stop access to new keys?


Interestingly, Stardock sells Steam keys through its own shop now. Well, they are the lleged infringers anyway, but I wonder if Steam is happy about that, since the are being accused of supporting infringement...
I womder if steam will change how developer keys will be handled in the future...,

And I wonder when this site will finally have moved to the new URL...
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Talonious
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #487 on: January 04, 2019, 06:24:55 pm »

Dogan and Kazon speak:
https://www.dogarandkazon.com/blog/2019/1/2/injunction-junction-court-instruction

Unfortunately I think this hurts the fans, but I understand that it's (probably) intended to give F&P the upper hand in negotiations going forward.

I'm not sure that I'd really agree that it hurts the fans that much, with the exception of possibly planned DLC not being released.

I would think that the game has been out long enough at this point that the majority of fans who intended to purchase the game have likely already done so if the sales trends follow traditional patterns wherein the majority of purchases are made in the initial week or two after a game's release.
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metamorphosis
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #488 on: January 06, 2019, 06:46:44 am »

I'd argue it does, because if SCO is never available again F&P can expect a massive retaliation from non-diehards if their game isn't anywhere near as good, or even if it IS as good, or better.
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Krulle
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #489 on: January 06, 2019, 11:12:46 am »

I personally do not expect a superior gameplay from GotP, but an alternatice continuation of the UQM storyline.
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PRH
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #490 on: January 06, 2019, 02:25:37 pm »

I personally do not expect a superior gameplay from GotP, but an alternatice continuation of the UQM storyline.

No. If all you need is a continuation of the UQM storyline, F&P might as well scrap GotP (the game) right now and write a novel instead. I personally do expect gameplay that is at least comparable in quality to that of UQM (which is going to take a lot of hard work). And I do realize that games that are as non-linear and demanding of the player's attention as SC2 are just not made anymore, but still I'd want something that plays more like SCO than like Mass Effect.

I'd also want to have a visual style similar to the one SC2/UQM had. The Unzervalt slides from SC2's intro and ending are some of the most beautiful pictures that have ever appeared in video games. George Barr is 81 years old now, let's hope he's going to be around and available for hire when GotP's development begins in earnest. Cheesy
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lostsoul
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #491 on: January 06, 2019, 05:58:46 pm »

i was having this very discussion on the facebook star control 2 group.

story is the most important thing in video games to me...game play is a close second...and finally graphics.
i would not be wounded one bit if they used the same engine that drives sc2/uqm. sco is pretty, sure, but it lacks the story and continuation i wanted out of a sc2 sequel.
would it be underwhelming...yes...but if the story is there and well written...then i could overlook it all.

hell id be ecstatic if they made half life 3 using the same engine as the first game...if the story is there, and good, then it wouldn't matter...not in the least.

but i know my way of seeing it isn't for everyone...people need there eye candy for sure...and thats ok too.
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Krulle
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #492 on: January 06, 2019, 09:35:00 pm »

..people need there [sic] eye candy for sure...
*cough*Syreen*cough*

But I found the slide images of SC2 sufficient eye candy.

I fear nobody can achieve the expectation many old fans have when presenting their version of a continuation.
The UQM story line simply fits so well, and at the same time leaves so much open to imagination (and making it fit in whatever else fantasy/sci-fi/... you've heard of), that I fear modern players lack the imagination to,experi'a long time ago, in a far away galaxy' mce it as much as we did. Modern media tends to leave less open...
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 09:40:31 pm by Krulle » Logged
CelticMinstrel
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #493 on: January 07, 2019, 02:57:54 pm »

Dogan and Kazon speak:
https://www.dogarandkazon.com/blog/2019/1/2/injunction-junction-court-instruction

Unfortunately I think this hurts the fans, but I understand that it's (probably) intended to give F&P the upper hand in negotiations going forward.

I'm not sure that I'd really agree that it hurts the fans that much, with the exception of possibly planned DLC not being released.

I would think that the game has been out long enough at this point that the majority of fans who intended to purchase the game have likely already done so if the sales trends follow traditional patterns wherein the majority of purchases are made in the initial week or two after a game's release.
I doubt I'm the only person who doesn't buy games on release. Some people may prefer to wait until the game goes on sale, for example.
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Talonious
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Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #494 on: January 07, 2019, 11:02:49 pm »

Dogan and Kazon speak:
https://www.dogarandkazon.com/blog/2019/1/2/injunction-junction-court-instruction

Unfortunately I think this hurts the fans, but I understand that it's (probably) intended to give F&P the upper hand in negotiations going forward.

I'm not sure that I'd really agree that it hurts the fans that much, with the exception of possibly planned DLC not being released.

I would think that the game has been out long enough at this point that the majority of fans who intended to purchase the game have likely already done so if the sales trends follow traditional patterns wherein the majority of purchases are made in the initial week or two after a game's release.
I doubt I'm the only person who doesn't buy games on release. Some people may prefer to wait until the game goes on sale, for example.

I'm certain that there will be exceptions. And I'm sorry to hear if you're one of them who was waiting on a sale and still wants the game. Four things I'd say in response though.

1. I was speaking for the more typical sales curve, not saying that there would not be those who were waiting to buy the game who now can't. A typical video game sales curve post-release is a huge spike initially followed by a pretty steep drop and then a gradual "tail". Or, put another way, it's pretty typical for the lion's share of a game's sales to take place in the first week or two.

2. If P&F are correct in their claims, then Stardock is essentially stealing from them. It sucks for the fans who haven't yet bought the game but want to, but you can hardly blame them for objecting.

3. As the court judge itself pointed out, Stardock knew of P&F's objections nearly a full year prior to the game's release and chose to go forward with the game release announcement in June 2018 anyway despite the pending legislation. This is worth reiterating: P&F had given notice that they considered certain things infringing almost a year before the game was released. If the fans are now hurt, then Stardock is at least as responsible.

"Plaintiff asserts that it stands to lose substantial monies spent on the development and marketing of Origins. Plaintiff was aware of Defendants' copyright claim to Star Control I and II since the development of Origins commenced, however, and was aware of the contours of the present copyright dispute since at least December 2017. Thus, whatever monies Plaintiff invested in Origins was done with the knowledge that serious copyright disputes were likely to arise or had arisen.

Plaintiff further asserts that the release of Origins 'has been widely communicated to Stardock's customers, partners, and the press,' and that any disruption in its release will be injurious to Plaintiff's reputation. ...

Again, Plaintiff announced the release of Origins in June 2018, six months after this action commenced. Plaintiff thus invited reliance on its announcement regarding the release of Origins with knowledge of Defendants' claims.

In view of the foregoing, the harm Plaintiff complains of is indeed of its own making. Plaintiff had knowledge of Defendants' copyright claims from the outset. Despite this knowledge, it developed potentially infringing material without resolution of the IP ownership issues, and then publicized the release of that material during the pendency of this action.  It now claims that its investment in Origins and reputation are on the line.

Given that Plaintiff largely created the foregoing predicament, the court is disinclined to extricate Plaintiff from a peril of it's own making."


4. If P&F's claims do end up being without merit, the game will go right back up on Steam and GoG at some point. At which point it will probably either be on sale at that time, or will be at some other time in the future.

In  other words...

If P&F are correct, then they're preventing outright theft from them after having given Stardock plenty of advance notice and warning.

If Stardock/Brad is correct, then fans will have the chance to purchase the game eventually anyway and it's nothing worse than a normal game release delay for fans who were waiting anyway.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 11:09:59 pm by Talonious » Logged
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