The Ur-Quan Masters Home Page Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 19, 2019, 09:51:32 am
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Paul & Fred have reached a settlement with Stardock!

+  The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum
|-+  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release
| |-+  General UQM Discussion (Moderator: Death 999)
| | |-+  Stardock Litigation Discussion
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 43 44 [45] Print
Author Topic: Stardock Litigation Discussion  (Read 47619 times)
Talonious
Zebranky food
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 41



View Profile
Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #660 on: August 28, 2019, 09:49:17 pm »

In-between, there's little to prevent Stardock from blowing up these issues again...

They are dismissed with prejudice. If Stardock tries to file a complaint against F&P again with the same claims as before, those claims would be rejected by the court immediately.

The fact that F&P will have to keep silent for a few years to let Stardock have its time in the spotlight does make me feel a bit uneasy, but I don't think Stardock would be able to keep F&P's announcements on hold indefinitely.

Catching up after being away for a while.

For me, P&F having to be quiet for a few years isn't much of a concession. It's going to take a couple of years minimum for their next game to be close enough to being ready to be marketed.

Switching subjects...

On the subject of forgiveness and the purchase of future Stardock created Star Control games:

I'm not a religious person, but in at least one major world religion that I was raised in (Roman Catholic), you have to actually admit you were wrong and ask for forgiveness for it to be granted. To me, that's a requirement for future Stardock purchases.

Which is quite unfortunate as I really do like Stardock's games. But barring this sort of step, I don't see myself supporting the company in the future while Wardell remains at the helm.
Logged
PRH
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 201



View Profile
Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #661 on: August 29, 2019, 08:30:35 am »

Seriously, I hope people would just stop waging a war against Stardock already. The litigation is OVER. F&P and Stardock are no longer enemies. And I personally don't give a flying F about what Brad Wardell feels about this whole incident. I don't need to see him in tears over what he had done, or otherwise humiliated or wracked with remorse. The only thing I want is a guarantee that nothing like this ever happens again, and the settlement agreement and the court order to dismiss all complaints and counterclaims with prejudice seem like a pretty solid guarantee to me. F&P's copyrights and the UQM trademark are safe in their hands, and there's nothing Stardock can do to change that anymore, even if they wanted to. So personally I hope you people would just move on. I haven't seen any lingering hostility on Stardock's side of the fence.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 08:32:33 am by PRH » Logged
Deus Siddis
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1387



View Profile
Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #662 on: August 29, 2019, 06:38:14 pm »

The only thing I want is a guarantee that nothing like this ever happens again, and the settlement agreement and the court order to dismiss all complaints and counterclaims with prejudice seem like a pretty solid guarantee to me. F&P's copyrights and the UQM trademark are safe in their hands, and there's nothing Stardock can do to change that anymore, even if they wanted to.

For us to feel certain of this, we have to put a lot of faith in either the pay-to-play/win american "justice" system or Stardock's self control not to launch ridiculous lawsuits in the future.  Anywhere there is a grey area inside or outside of the agreement, a new lawsuit could be formed.  If you give money to Stardock, you are risking them using these funds against Paul and Fred and/or this community project in the future.


I haven't seen any lingering hostility on Stardock's side of the fence.

They have zero reason to be.  They launched the lawsuit and Ghosts of the Precursors is the game that got pushed back an unknown number of years as a result of it, not Origins.
Logged
PRH
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 201



View Profile
Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #663 on: August 29, 2019, 07:07:04 pm »

For us to feel certain of this, we have to put a lot of faith in either the pay-to-play/win american "justice" system or Stardock's self control not to launch ridiculous lawsuits in the future.  Anywhere there is a grey area inside or outside of the agreement, a new lawsuit could be formed.  If you give money to Stardock, you are risking them using these funds against Paul and Fred and/or this community project in the future.

Let's be reasonable here. I don't know what your perception of the American justice system is, but I personally think that Stardock can't just come to the court and bribe it into altering the records of this lawsuit and reinstating Stardock's original complaint (this is an extreme example that you didn't imply in your post, but we do have to define the boundaries here). I think that that amount of "faith" in the American justice system is perfectly reasonable. Otherwise all kinds of wild conspiracy theories can be made up, but since these can be neither proven nor disproven, we'll never come to any kind of consensus here.

And as far as I could see, there aren't many "grey areas" in the outcome of this lawsuit, if we assume that everything that was posted in F&P's blog and the court documents for both the lawsuit and the trademark applications was true. Stardock cannot ever reapply for the UQM trademark or dispute F&P's ownership of the UQM copyright again. The worst thing I can imagine happening is that when F&P start releasing promotional material for the UQM sequel, Stardock would start issuing DMCA takedowns against it and sue F&P for copyright infringement. If that does happen, well... I guess we'll just have to watch as Stardock gets crushed. And I'm sure we'll have plenty of ways to support F&P if that ever happens.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 09:44:54 pm by PRH » Logged
Deus Siddis
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1387



View Profile
Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #664 on: August 29, 2019, 11:10:01 pm »

And as far as I could see, there aren't many "grey areas" in the outcome of this lawsuit,

We never got to see the actual settlement agreement.


The worst thing I can imagine happening is that when F&P start releasing promotional material for the UQM sequel, Stardock would start issuing DMCA takedowns against it and sue F&P for copyright infringement. If that does happen, well... I guess we'll just have to watch as Stardock gets crushed. And I'm sure we'll have plenty of ways to support F&P if that ever happens.

Whether a person is right or wrong, it takes an enormous stockpile of money to successfully sue or defend against a lawsuit.  If you run out of money, you essentially lose by default.  So no, Stardock would not automatically be crushed by lack of case merit.  They could "win" a second lawsuit simply by exhausting their victims' resources just as they might have the first time.


Every dollar you give Stardock is a dollar they could use to fund their legal war machine in the future.
Logged
Talonious
Zebranky food
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 41



View Profile
Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #665 on: August 30, 2019, 02:06:00 am »

Seriously, I hope people would just stop waging a war against Stardock already. The litigation is OVER. F&P and Stardock are no longer enemies. And I personally don't give a flying F about what Brad Wardell feels about this whole incident. I don't need to see him in tears over what he had done, or otherwise humiliated or wracked with remorse. The only thing I want is a guarantee that nothing like this ever happens again, and the settlement agreement and the court order to dismiss all complaints and counterclaims with prejudice seem like a pretty solid guarantee to me. F&P's copyrights and the UQM trademark are safe in their hands, and there's nothing Stardock can do to change that anymore, even if they wanted to. So personally I hope you people would just move on. I haven't seen any lingering hostility on Stardock's side of the fence.

The decision to forgive and forget is up to each individual person. Personally, I saw enough blatant bad faith and bad actions that, combined with previous history, leaves a bad taste in my mouth and a desire not to hand somebody more money in the future absent some indications that they have learned a lesson.

Stardock in general, and Brad Wardell in particular, outright attempted theft as well as the destruction of online communities who objected. Further, they rather blatantly lied about it. (P&F aren't the "creators" of Star Control? What a joke.)

MAYBE the intellectual property is safely in the right hands. But to me that doesn't mean that a year and a half of bad actions just get to be hand waved away and swept under the rug. That's just me personally. I hold nothing against anyone who holds a contrary viewpoint. But, conversely, as has been pointed out.

1. There's a history of bad behavior. The money you spend on Stardock games now could very well finance future bad behavior. Perhaps against F&P, or perhaps against some other small developer.

2. Stardock is the company that was predominantly attempting to take what did not belong to them. They failed. But they didn't really suffer all that much for their actions. There's more reason to hold lingering hostility on the other side.

Lastly, one additional point that I have not seen mentioned, high powered individuals getting away with bad behavior once or twice with no consequences emboldens future bad behavior. I suppose you could take Randy Pitchford as one prominent example in the video game industry, but you don't have to squint that hard to see individuals outside of the video game industry who have repeatedly gotten away with doing bad things - such as merit-less lawsuits - only to feel emboldened and escalate over time.
Logged
CelticMinstrel
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 519



View Profile
Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #666 on: August 30, 2019, 04:21:13 am »

you have to actually admit you were wrong and ask for forgiveness for it to be granted.
This. Well, I'd suggest simply admitting you're wrong is sufficient. (In fact if you explicitly asked for forgiveness I might start to question the sincerity of your confession.) But anyway, I've never heard any evidence to suggest that Wardell has admitted he's wrong about anything, so... yeah, I'm not buying SCO unless I can get it in a Humble Bundle and send all the money to charity.

1. There's a history of bad behavior. The money you spend on Stardock games now could very well finance future bad behavior. Perhaps against F&P, or perhaps against some other small developer.
Indeed, this was far from the first case of bad behaviour from Wardell.
Logged
Krulle
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1017


*Hurghi*! Krulle is *spitting* again!


View Profile
Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #667 on: August 30, 2019, 03:00:31 pm »

In this regard I'm also in a bad pinch:
I like this genre of games so much, and from what I've seen, SC:Origins is actually well made.
Not supporting the only mainstream game in this genre does not embolden other developers to go for it with their ideas.
 -> less UQM-style games

But sending money towards Stardock / Mr. Wardell just gives the signal "You got away with this behaviour. No lesson to be learnt here."

Furthermore:
while the settlement may define some things to be final under US-law, that's far from all the damage Stardock can do.
European courts proceedings are not bound by this settlement.
Chinese, Indian, ... court proceedings neither.
And seeing the sizes of their potential markets, the US-market pales in comparison, and remains important only because the games prices are high there and it is the home market for most developers.

On the balance, my personal situation tips the scale towards "no money for Stardock games".
Logged
TD
Frungy champion
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 55



View Profile
Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #668 on: August 31, 2019, 01:27:24 pm »

If Stardock could have its way they would have destroyed F&P, this community, and would be asking $$$ for the privilege of downloading UQM.

I'll buy games from someone else thanks.
Logged
Kwayne
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 177



View Profile
Re: Stardock Litigation Discussion
« Reply #669 on: October 08, 2019, 12:14:31 pm »

You fools don't know that all of this was Brad's masterfully executed plan to reinvigorate F&P's desire to continue UQM. Now they know they can't wait to make a sequel indefinitely. If they don't make it in two years, I will. And nobody wants that, am I right?
Logged

Check dA for some of my non-art ... http://kwayne64.deviantart.com/
Pages: 1 ... 43 44 [45] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!