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Author Topic: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?  (Read 19808 times)
LordJim
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Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« on: April 11, 2003, 11:56:16 pm »

That DosBox pretty much has Starcon 2 emulated perfectly? It would bug the hell out of me that all this work could be for nothing. Actually it annoys me just watching.
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Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2003, 12:08:45 am »

it doesnt work perfectly for every system on line the sound does not work and the colors get messed.

also i like some of the voice acting. exept for the orz
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Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2003, 12:15:44 am »

Also, I don't think you can technically get the DOS version for free... although I really don't know exactly what TFB released as open source, I may be wrong about this...
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Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2003, 11:27:43 am »

The screwy colours can be fixed by running starcon2.exe with the "/g:bios" switch.  I should know, without it I get screwy colours.

But as for the original question, how on earth do you figure that this would be "for nothing"?  UQM has gameplay improvements over SC2 (e.g., AutoScan, lander navigation), improved visuals (3-D orbit view, smooth-scrolling melee) and higher-fidelity music (that isn't prone to skipping like it is on my DosBox installation)  And it has full speech.  Say whatever you want about the quality of acting in said speech, but the fact that it's there makes a ton of difference.

We're not just bringing the game back to life, we're breathing new life into it as well.  If that doesn't interest some people, that's fine, they can play their old copy via DosBox; but it interests ME quite a bit.  And I'm having quite a bit of fun helping, too.
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Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2003, 11:45:31 am »

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Also, I don't think you can technically get the DOS version for free... although I really don't know exactlywhat TFB released as open source, I may be wrong about this...

I'm pretty sure you're correct.  A year ago I bought SC2 off the Accolade site.  I don't know if it's still up but I think I would've gotten gyped out of $15...  If only SC2 weren't worth it.
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LordJim
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Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2003, 11:52:14 am »

For me, the speech is a terrible addition. The first time through the game my imagination concocted wonderful voices for the characters. The voice overs tend to disrupt the imteractive process that a player enjoys when filling in missing pieces.

I also consider the free scrolling battles to detract. They give a better idea of where a cloaked opponent is, and also do not display the ship sprites in their original and flattering scales.

I understand your point though. I believe that Star Control 2 is the best game that has ever, and probably will ever be created. New life should be given to it. I just think DosBox may do a better job of it than altering the original.
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Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2003, 12:56:41 pm »

Say whatever you want about the quality of acting in said speech, but the fact that it's there makes a ton of difference.

Roger that, saying whatever I want: the voice acting only makes the game worse. I'd rather hear the nice music better instead of the talking. But it really doesn't matter since the voices can be turned off. Heck, the scaling and the interface can be reverted back to their original style. I'd take this any day over Dosbox, though.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2003, 01:00:04 pm by Shiver » Logged
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Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2003, 12:59:01 pm »

The new hyperspace music alone makes it worth the while, as far as I'm concerned.  The other nifty little things the 3D0 version does better are just nicieties.

And there is one more big advantage UQM has over emulated SC2 - when UQM is done, there is a set of working souce code for which modifications and further improvements can be made.  Trying to add in new things, even very small new things, into the old SC2 would be no easy task, especially since the source code is lost to time.

If I compare the chances of getting something minor but nice, say a random team generator for hypermelee, for UQM vs. SC2, UQM wins by virtue of there being no hope for it in SC2.  And they're doing such a good job keeping everything true to the original, that you can't complain even if you don't like any change, since pretty much any differences can be set to 3d0 or pc.

Besides......think about it this way.  Dosbox emulation may be nice, but how many people are going to be grabbed by something like that?  Except for the die hards, no one's likely to care.  Something like this though, it can bring new fans into the fold, and that's a plus too.

Give these guys some credit, they're doing as much for the StarCon Community as anyone out there, and more the 99% of us.
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Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2003, 01:39:18 pm »

I definitely like UQM, if I had spare time, I'd help in the development process - but I'm already stretched pretty thin with other little things I've been working on.

About the voice-acting - I think it's a cool addition - and if you don't like it, there is a command-line switch to turn it off.  Plus - as this is open-source, you can always work on making your own voice-acting for them, and maybe even submit something better to the community (if it uses a standard format, I haven't dug around in it myself).

I like mix-matching the 3do-version of things & the pc-version of things.  I prefer the pc-version menus & planet-scan info (all text), but like the 3do music & fonts.

And for the original poster - DOSBox will not emulate SC2 correctly on my system.  Even with the /g:bios switch (and much more foolin' around with things), I get garbled colors across the board (usually takes about 15-30 seconds before it kicks in though).  However, I've had no problem with UQM as of yet.
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Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2003, 03:00:49 pm »

I'll go with the general consensus here, and add a few things... On my machine, UQM now looks almost exactly like the original SC2 for PC with menus and all. Tehere really isn't much difference,. the voices as stated, can be turned off if one doesn't enjoy them. And another critical point. UQM is likely to reach far more people, because it is simple to get from here. I seem to recalll though (and correct me if I'm wrong), that a Dosbox actually costs money.

So how many new players will go through the tedious chore of both hunting down a copy of this game and getting a Dosbox? As opposed to those who find this site and download it?
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Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2003, 10:10:25 pm »

you can get a copy of sc2 pc version on *****. there are only two sources to download from but thats where i got mine. i once owned the single cd that had both sc1 and sc2 with a map in perfect condition, but sold for a rip off of $20. now i kick my self every time i think about it.. ouch!

anyways how did you get a good emulation setup to run sc2 on dosbox. ive read the ponaf guide on it but since the new version came out its screwed all up. for instance everytime i get to the starbase for the first time when the power is low the sound skips and jitters something horrible. yes i did set the keepsmall=true but nothing? ive tried posting over on there site but its like few in far between. i only posted here cause the topic was brought up. anyone with some constructive ideas?

and also uqm is what id rather be playing. with all its extras you cant go wrong~DEFIANT
« Last Edit: April 16, 2003, 05:53:28 am by DEFIANT » Logged
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Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2003, 09:25:52 am »

First of all, dosbox does not run the game "near perfectly" at all. On my quick system I get immense slowdown in hyperspace and during melee battles. This may be because I play in windowed mode, but that's no excuse.

I generally agree with Nic's points here. But I'd like to add that one big thing is just the customizability you have in UQM that you will never have in running the original version on dosbox. PLUS, remember there are several original bugs (tm) which UQM has eliminated. And more are in the works (108, 109, 183)...Plus there's the fact that UQM is cross-platform, and will work on many more system configurations. IMHO, UQM is superior to running the original version through a dos emulator in every single way.

And yes, you can get sc2 on kazaa. But this is illegal.
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Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2003, 11:48:56 pm »

illegal or not if there is way to screw accolade i will. its not like there going to release it as abandon ware or ill find it in the $10 dollar basket at a local fred myers. come to my house and try to sue me. you think there going to persue you and a small time download you did over the net. if they did what a sad country we live in. all hail the corparate usa. bah. they've got bigger fish to fry then some kid trying to relive past glory. im not making money off it so in my mind its ok. sorry goes out to the fred and starcontrol team of long ago, but when theres a will there is a way~DEFIANT
« Last Edit: April 13, 2003, 11:50:36 pm by DEFIANT » Logged
LordJim
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Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2003, 01:40:45 am »

Hmm well first you need to know a bit about how cycles work in Dosbox. The emulator starts out at an incredibly low amount of clock cycles. You must increase this if you would like proper performance. Ctrl+F12 a few times and there will be no slowdown on a good system. The sound does occasionally skip still, but they never claimed the soundblaster emulation was perfect. Besides the occasional sound skip, I have no slowdown issues. The best way to max out Dosbox's performance is to bring up the task manager and increasing the cycles to a point where your system is using near 100 percent of its processing power.

I totally respect the work that is going on with making SC2 open source. I guess I just respect that Dos emulation will eventually enable gamers to play many of the best games ever made a bit more. This just seems like it has broader implications than saving a single one of these brilliant games.
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Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2003, 02:06:59 am »

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illegal or not if there is way to screw accolade i will.


There is exactly one legal and moral way to "screw" accolade: not buying their products.

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its not like there going to release it as abandon ware or ill find it in the $10 dollar basket at a local fred myers.


No, they do not plan to release it as abandonware.  You might find it used somewhere, but this is not the point.  The point is that, like it or not, accolade own SC2 rights.

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come to my house and try to sue me. you think there going to persue you and a small time download you did over the net. if they did what a sad country we live in. all hail the corparate usa. bah. they've got bigger fish to fry then some kid trying to relive past glory.


Software piracy is harming the entire gaming industry.  Even if they don't sue you, it is still wrong.

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im not making money off it so in my mind its ok. sorry goes out to the fred and starcontrol team of long ago, but when theres a will there is a way~DEFIANT


And here is the biggest fallacy of them all.  No, you are not making money off of the game.  But, neither is accolade.  If you did the exact same thing at a grocery store, and tried to apply the same justification, you would see how illogical that argument is.  If you steal food from a store and eat it, what has happened?  You have not made money off of the food, but that does not make it right.  You stole.  Period.
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