The Ur-Quan Masters Home Page Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 28, 2024, 06:32:10 pm
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Celebrating 30 years of Star Control 2 - The Ur-Quan Masters

+  The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum
|-+  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release
| |-+  General UQM Discussion (Moderator: Death 999)
| | |-+  Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7 Print
Author Topic: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?  (Read 20457 times)
Lukipela
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3620


The Ancient One


View Profile
Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2003, 02:58:35 am »

Although I just know there is going to be replys in the way of "Get off your high horses!" I still feel complelled to make a comment to these two latest posts.

I have to say that I feel it is strange that people, when it comes to computers, don't see these things as theft. Copying games and warez is the lifeblood of many gamers nowadays. Because these things exists only in the computer, people seem to believe you can't really steal them.

But if one thinks about this for a while, it is completely illogical. To use ErekLichs grocery store example... I often hear that it's okay to copy something to "try it out", or because "It's not so good that I want to pay for it", or even "It's too expensive".

Lets take tomatoes in our grocery store for an example, shall we? You don't get to bring tomatoes home and eat them, in order to find out if they are good. You pay for them. And if you get caught stealing tomatoes and explain "Well, I don't really like them that much, so I thought I'd just grab a few, the storeowner will call you a thief". The same goes for "Well, these tomatoes are just so expensive, I can't afford to buy them" Then don't eat tomatoes!

It's easy to say that you just made one copy for personal use, or that you're not making any money off it, but you're still stealing from the people who invested a lot of effort into these products....

A better example I just thought of, is books. Imagine that your favourite author has released a new book, and you want to read it but not pay for it. So you walk into the book store and open the book, and make a photography of each page. Technically, you haven't stolen anything, the book will still be there when you leave, you've just "copied" it. However, if the bookstore manager catches you in there photographing a book, he will throw you out....
Logged

What's up doc?
Mormont
*Smell* controller
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 253


I love YaBB 1G - SP1!


View Profile
Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2003, 04:03:29 am »

I agree with Lukipela and Ereklich 100%. It's ridiculous how acceptable theft has become.  Another thing I'd like to add is that if you're pirating something "just to try it out," why not download the demo?
Logged
Defender
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 815



View Profile
Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2003, 04:36:38 am »

ok SMART guys, where do i send my hard earned cash?
oh thats right, fred and company dont own the rights to that game. now lets see, if i send money to accolade how much would that be, umm? oh whats that?, its not produced any more, what a shame, cause id pay for it, but theres no longer a price tag attached, well ill be damned. think before you judge, stealing it may be, but when its no longer sold i consider it picking thru some one elses garbage. its been thrown away never to be used again. and in that senario its free and not stealing. there is NO law that prohibits you to rumage thru some one elses garbage. look it up you'll be surprised. now if you dont mind ill continue with the way ive always got trash ill rumage, ive got no pride and nothing to hide~DEFIANT  
Logged
Defender
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 815



View Profile
Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2003, 04:52:05 am »

oh and another thing, in this great big corparate america we live in its sad to see that only the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, so if it came down to stealing to feed my my family, you'd be damn sure id do WHATEVER it took to do so. my veiws are my own and if you dont agree you have that right but youll learn soon enough how tough it is in the real world when you move out from underneath mommy and daddys protective wing.as you can already tell im a little pissed, im going to blow off some steam~DEFIANT
« Last Edit: April 14, 2003, 04:57:26 am by DEFIANT » Logged
LordJim
Zebranky food
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4


I love YaBB 1G - SP1!


View Profile
Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2003, 05:29:59 am »

No, but stealing software does work in some situations. Some people steal software and then decide they like it enough to buy it. Piracy is a great way to determine which companies are worth giving money and which are not. The problem stems when the person stealing does not pay for either the good or the bad products they steal. Piracy is also the best way to acquire products that have a monopoly on the market such as Windows or Adobe Premiere, which are not by any means good products worth paying for, but are necessary for tasks because there are no adequate competitors. (PC) The same is true for accolade. They were a terrible company. Do not support them.

-Jim
Logged
Defender
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 815



View Profile
Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2003, 05:32:38 am »

heres some thing else for you guys to think about, if you havent noticed but i live in oregon. yhea so what you you say, well while everone else has enjoyed a decrease in gas prices, oregon is still ranked #1 highest in all of the usa. at $2.00 a gallon id call that stealing but whos standing up for me, huh? its the little people that take it in the ass on everything from food to gas to housing, and you sit here and defend a piss ass pc game and how some one acquried it. SAD. wake up, if you want to take a stand, do so without fear. i take my stand every day. may be you should take yours~DEFIANT

~and piss ass refers to (its just a game) not the quality of the game~
« Last Edit: April 14, 2003, 05:36:54 am by DEFIANT » Logged
ErekLich
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 247


One Ring to rule them all, eh you know the rest.


View Profile
Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2003, 06:16:15 am »

you know something, DEFIANT?  I am taking a stand.  Right here, right now.

Accolade owns the legal rights to the name Star Control 2.  Period.  This is a fact, indisputable.  They have not sold them to anyone.

It is up to Accolade what to do with what they own.  Just as it is up to, say, a  stamp collecter to do whatever he wishes with the stamps he buys, Accolade may do anything it wants with the games it buys.  The fact that our friend the stamp collecter does not put his stamps on the market does not give you the right to steal them from him.

Accolade has NOT thrown away the copyright to the game.  They still own it.  It is not in their trash can, it is in their attic.  If there is no way to acquire it from Accolade then there is NO legal way to acquire it.  Period.

I'm sorry you have to pay so much for gas, but the price is not stealing.  It may be monopolizing or some other sin, but it is NOT stealing.  Also, You cannot compare stealing to feed your family to stealing a game.  The game is not necessary for your survival.  You keep piling up the fallacies in your point of view.  The real world must not be very tough for you if you have the spare cash to buy a game, not to mention the computer to play it on and the internet access to scream about your "right" to steal.  There are people who have nothing.  Nothing.  Consider how blessed you are that you have anything at all.

LordJim - you are correct that some people will buy the game after they try it.  However, they still stole it.  Nothing can erase that.  It is wrong and an evil act.  
Logged

Oh God, please don't let me die today!  Tomorrow would be SO much better!
AnonomouSpathi
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 156


Spathi?  What spathi?  You're imagining, hunam.


View Profile
Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2003, 09:36:45 am »

Every time I hear a speech like that, I'm inclined to go off on one of my own about how the granting of intellectual property rights is a distortion of capitalism, and how granting them to solve the chief problem of capitalism, it's stymieying effect on innovation, has cause a myriad of other problems to pop up, to the point where modern day american capitalism enjoys practically none of the actual benefits that capitalism was supposed to provide.

But that's just the anarchist in me talking, and the only economics I'd really like to discuss around these parts has to do with trading biodata for heavy weaponry, so I won't.
Logged
zixyer
Zebranky food
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 22


I love YaBB 1G - SP1!


View Profile
Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2003, 04:07:16 pm »

ErekLich- your argument seems to be based on the assertion that if something is illegal then it is automatically wrong.  But is that always or has that always been the case?   I can think of plenty of things that were legal in the past that were obviously wrong, and things that were illegal in the past (or the present) that are obviously perfectly okay.  I don't think you should rely on the law to make ethical choices -- the law is just an indication of the will of the majority.  The will of the majority isn't always right (in fact, is often wrong).

Not that I agree or disagree with you on illegal software copying, I just think your argument is flawed
Logged
ErekLich
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 247


One Ring to rule them all, eh you know the rest.


View Profile
Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2003, 06:10:25 pm »

I do not rely on illegal ALWAYS meaning wrong, however in the case of theft I think illegal does mean it is wrong.

Also, how do intellectual property grants "distort capitalism?"  If someone comes up with an idea then they should be able to reap the benefits of that idea.
Logged

Oh God, please don't let me die today!  Tomorrow would be SO much better!
Defender
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 815



View Profile
Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2003, 07:38:33 pm »

ErekLich,
is your morality of stealing is wrong, based off your belief in GOD or just your parents instilled behavior also based on the belief in GOD. would i want some one to take something from me i worked hard on to make or acquried, i guess i would protect my stuff from anyone trying to take it. then why is it kazaa exsists? its like leaving the front door open saying here its free game have at. then im left with the question? should i or shouldnt i? ive made a choice to get something without paying for it yes, but like i said you show me where to send my cash and how much and ill be most happy to do so. it may be moraly wrong to steal and i may pay for it in the end but you have no right to point fingers. ease up, i see your view clearly, may be you should see mine~DEFIANT
Logged
Eran Mekhmandarov
Guest


Email
Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2003, 08:04:15 pm »

Hmm... A world without intellectual property? I wouldn't like to live there, would you? Are you ready to say goodbye to books (no doubt some will be writen, though who would publish them?), movies (would you go investing millions of dollers in a movie which you can't charge people to see?), medicine (why would farmacudical companies R&D for new drugs if there's no gain in it?) etc'...
Logged
ErekLich
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 247


One Ring to rule them all, eh you know the rest.


View Profile
Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2003, 08:10:19 pm »

Your illogic astounds me, DEFIANT.  Yes, I too would wish to not have people steal things from me.  That has absolutely nothing to do with why Kazza exists.

Accolade did not create Kazza.

Accolade did not put the game on Kazza.  Pirates did.

Also, I have every right to "point fingers" and tell you that you are stealing.  Yes, it is your choice.  However, the consequences of your actions affect not only you, but also the gaming industry and therefore me, albiet indirectly.  I see your viewpoint;  I am just telling you that hey, you are stealing, and it is wrong.  I certainly can't stop you from doing it, but I can tell you it is wrong.  You're getting far too upset about this.

[/rant]

I'm sorry I am being so confrontational about this.  I prefer to try and discuss things rationally.  But when you come onto this board and say, "screw you accolade and if you disagree with me screw you" reasoned discussion is difficult.  I would like to ask, as respectfully as I can, that you calm down about the whole matter.

to answer your question, my belief that stealing is wrong is based on both my belief in God and my parents' teaching.  Why do you ask?
Logged

Oh God, please don't let me die today!  Tomorrow would be SO much better!
Death 999
Global Moderator
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3873


We did. You did. Yes we can. No.


View Profile
Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2003, 08:22:00 pm »

I'd like to back that up. I don't believe in God, and I believe stealing is wrong.
Logged
Lukipela
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3620


The Ancient One


View Profile
Re: Does it bug anyone that is working on this?
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2003, 08:30:18 pm »

A few points I'd like to make... The first one really hasn't really got that much to do with the conversation, except I'd like to point out that people who complain about how expensive thing that they are "forced" to buy are should look around for a bit... 2 $ a gallon for fuel? wake up, noone is forcing you to buy fuel, and there are loads of people who can't afford to buy the stuff at all, much less a car. Over here, fuel is currently going at 1.07 €/litre, which translates into about 4.05 € a gallon, which is about 4.10 $ / gallon.That's twice what you pay. So really, you're being spoiled and shouldn't complain. Also, it isn't aright to drive a car, and it's really noones responsibility to sell you fuel dirt cheap. If you pay, you drive.

For AS: An example to bring this a bit clsoer to the real world for ya. Have a look at, for instance, http://www.sharewarepromotions.com/. most of the software advertised there is done by companys consisting of a few persons. They pout loads of work and effort into what they do, and the money is supposed to keep them going til the next product. How do you think they feel, when, a day after they release something, there are already twenty cracks out so that people wont have to pay them? How long do you think they can keep going really? Big coroporations can "afford" to lose a little every now and then, but small companies simply can't. Also, Erans post has some very good points. Why would anyone bother, if they don't get anything out ofit? since long before the greeks, artists have been sponsored in one way or another, because otherwise they'll starve to death...

For the Kazaa issue... So what you're saying is, if there's a riot in the town, you'd be among those who loot stores? Or, if someone forgets to lock their door when they leave their house, it's perfectly alright to walk in and steal stuff? Like it or not, theft is theft. And this is not a legal issue as much as it is a moral one. Laws can be wrong, yes. But we should try to act to the spirit of the law, and not the letter of the law.

Still, I will admit, it is a troublesome situation, seeing as the game can't be easily aquired yet. But there is UQM, and while hard, it's probably not impossible to get hold of a copy if one tries hard. Hell, if I can find people who own the game here in Finalnd, I'm sure you can find one or two in the US willing to part with their copy...
Logged

What's up doc?
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!