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Author Topic: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the story  (Read 37003 times)
Nic.
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #90 on: May 26, 2003, 10:08:26 pm »

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Do you refer to Hayes taking your radio actives before telling you what he needs. No bug at all. Pc version did it. Just a way of zipping past the boring stuff at the beginning if you wanted.
Yes, and as we all know, the PC version was 100% bug-free.  Lander cheat, anyone?  Tongue

What leaves me the most dumbfounded about this response is that my purpose in starting this particular thread was to try and get people to think (and talk) about what may be "wrong" with the game in its current form plot-wise, and what could be done to correct it, in order to make the gameplay experience as good as it could possibly be.  The bulk of the repsonses have ignored these questions, (but have been mildly interesting in their own right) but the attitude of "I love this game, warts and all" is completely inappropriate here, considering the aforementioned topic.

Nostalgia is a powerful force, true, but it is not as though I'm proposing a complete story re-write or anything.  The game, and its plot, as they sit now, are very well done (better than any of their contemporaries, and better than most that have come since, IMO) but if you really sit back and roll the whole story around in your head, some parts of it just don't quite "fit" as well as the rest.  They fit well enough, true, but I believe that if you were to "tweak" them just a bit, the game would be even more satisfying to play than it already is.  I've already mentioned the parts that I could think of, and possible solutions, and now I ask (again), what can you come up with?
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #91 on: May 26, 2003, 10:38:29 pm »

Has anyone mentioned the distinct lack of alien colonies? I mean, everyone's flying about in dozens of starships all over their spheres of influence, but practically nobody has any presence on any planet (or moon) except their homeworld. Every single exception to this rule is due to some really nifty object being down on the surface that they apparently can't move.

I suggest adding more inhabited planets (or at least minimal colonies) for each race with a sphere of influence to remedy this.

Second, nobody seems to object to us running off with every single shred of minerals we can find near the surface. Surely the races with dozens of ships around would have some sort of mining operation in place and would object to an outsider stealing "their" minerals - if there are any left for us to take, that is.
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #92 on: May 26, 2003, 11:02:18 pm »

i think making it so aliens charge you or bar you from mining on their planets is a bit too drastic a change to SC2. However, on the solar systems with "green" or habitable orbit systems, there may be a colony or such. Besides, you aren't mining up every available resource, you're nabbing the large surface concentrations. agreed, that's pretty silly. You could always add sorta "blown up andro city" style energy signatures that are mines  and have a lander message "captain, we've run into some <x> miners..." when you run into one. That way, you'd preserve the game's amount of resources, but just add more realism by having some invisible resources covered/utilized by the aliens' mines.
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #93 on: May 26, 2003, 11:41:54 pm »

The biggest plot hole that I always notice is how the spathi go from fearing the Ultimate Evil to fearing the Evil Ones.  And how the spaceship captains and Fwiffo always talk about Spathiwa, but when you get there they all live on the moon.  
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Nic.
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #94 on: May 27, 2003, 07:58:30 am »

Ultimate Evil vs. Evil Ones?  They fear both, hunam.  The Evil Ones are but one manifestation of the Ultimate Evil's power.

And the fact that they are all on the moon is explained in a hilariously implausible manner by the Spathi High Council.  Put simply, fear drove the Spathi civilization to amazing heights.  Go play the game some more, it will all make sense soon.
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #95 on: May 27, 2003, 09:06:59 am »

dude, the spathi are meant to be frustratingly, confusing pansies. and they succeed perfectly. so don' complain bout no spathi or fwiffo'll knock ya one.
what about adding inhabited zones on colonies? or when you try and go to the planet you get one of those "lander reports" talking about how due to your ally status the <x> allow you to land and mine.

I mean, I don't think alien colonies should play such a major role, but as a minor little side note they'd be cool.
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #96 on: May 29, 2003, 06:47:39 am »

Huge chmmr sphere is moronic. Because they have the plot considers that they are the most powerful race (though we all know the cruiser rapes those things in battle) doesn't mean their sphere should be large. Size of Sphere doesn't equivocate ( != ) to number of ships or size of fleet. Its merely the extent of their operational range. I would think that it'd take a while before the chmmr themselves would be able to increase their sphere. If any such thing would be implemented (please dont) it'd have to be designed based upon an expansion over time in which the sphere increases at incredibly small increments. And besides you'd be creating another plot whole by making a gigantic sphere for chmmr cause what would be the point of sacrificing your beautiful "service ship" when they'd already be in control of the entire universe. I believe if i remember correctly the chmmr had been developing their race and honing their racial abilities combining the might of the Mhrnmrnrrnrkmrnr (i'm so disgraceful) and Chenjesu  NOT building an armada of ships large enough to whipe out a whole quadrant. Though they do have pretty nifty plans...
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #97 on: May 29, 2003, 09:32:39 am »

The CRUISER?!

wow. You must have spent a LOT of time experimenting with SuperMelee to get that figured out, dude...

Besides. They shouldn't have anything more than 5% larger than the original Chenjesu sphere. Probably about a little less than the Ilwrath sphere, and far more into the "quadrant" <centered around Procyon>. And while they DO have only one planet and it is after a long hibernation, their planet is a ball of solid resources. Besides, they already have a ton of industrial capacity because they have BOTH the existing chenjesu and mrnmrhrm pop on the surface of Procyon. So, while they shouldn't ZAP pop up to about Ilwrath size of influence, I think they should start with a sphere like the Pkunk and then expand constantly over about six months to Ilwrath size. And honestly, after the "Two Week" sleep period where you get Da Bomb strapped to your beautiful, sexy, sleek, gorgeous battlecruiser <that was the most tragic part of the game, losing that ship> you won't wait around six months. I think the effect intended would just be showing the slow yet inexorable advance of the fleets of the Chmmr beginning to battle the Quan as you do the Covert Sabotage mission that cripples the Quan fleets.
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #98 on: July 29, 2003, 02:33:20 am »

Two more issues:

-Why didn't the Dnyarri know about the Slylandro during the Sentient Mileu dynasty?  The Dnyarri tend to kill "useless races."  They would have compelled the Ur-Quan to tell them where all the sentient beings were that the UQ knew of.  The Dnyarri's reach certainly extended into this part of the galaxy (they made the Ur-Quan attack the Taalo homeworld).  I can't think of a viable answer to this one.

-Why didn't the Ur-Quan remember the Slylandro and either Slave-Shield them or Kill them?  This one has more of an explanation; after years of slavery, the Ur-Quan didn't pass down any memories or records of the Slylandro.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2003, 02:34:18 am by Culture20 » Logged
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #99 on: July 29, 2003, 03:53:59 am »

Maybe the few Ur-Quan who met the Slylandro saw what was happening to their brethren and made sure that the secret of existence of the Slylandro died with them.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2003, 03:54:27 am by Death_999 » Logged
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #100 on: July 29, 2003, 08:34:10 am »

I'm not sure that killing the Slylandro would be easy.  I mean, they live in a gas giant.  They could hide pretty far down in it.  Also, the weapons would have to directly hit a Slylandro to kill it because there's nothing for projectiles to detonate upon.    You also have to consider that perhaps the particular gaseous mix of the planet would destroy any projectiles that penetrate too far.  As for the Kzer-Za not slave shielding them, what would be the point?  Since they can't leave the planet anyway, the Kzer-Za would probably consider slave shielding them to be a waste of resources.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2003, 08:35:58 am by Glitch » Logged
Death 999
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #101 on: July 29, 2003, 07:17:36 pm »

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I'm not sure that killing the Slylandro would be easy.  I mean, they live in a gas giant.  They could hide pretty far down in it.


The slylandro have indicated that they have a height range, and if they go too low then bad bad things happen.

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Also, the weapons would have to directly hit a Slylandro to kill it because there's nothing for projectiles to detonate upon.


Detonation does not require collision. Ever heard of depth charges? They are bombs launched from ships that fall through the water and explode after a given period of time. If they are near enough to a submarine, they will damage it, perhaps enough to destroy it. No collisions (unless you consider the pressure wave to be a bunch of water molecule collisions).

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You also have to consider that perhaps the particular gaseous mix of the planet would destroy any projectiles that penetrate too far.


"Any" projectile?
A) there is no chemical that destroys everything (though you can come up with combinations that come pretty close, they also react with each other -- e.g. strong acid, strong base)
B) you can always make the projectile fatter and fatter, thus giving the atmosphere  matter to eat away while leaving matter in the middle undisturbed. Take a couple 10 Km asteroids and dump them -- instant hydrogen bomb strength detonation along a column!
C) You can also put things inside the asteroid, in nested pressure vessels. Things such as hydrogen bombs or poisons.

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Since they can't leave the planet anyway, the Kzer-Za would probably consider slave shielding them to be a waste of resources.


And slave-shielding Vela wasn't a waste of resources?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2003, 07:18:39 pm by Death_999 » Logged
Deep-Jiffa
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #102 on: July 29, 2003, 10:20:44 pm »

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And slave-shielding Vela wasn't a waste of resources?


No. Why should they destroy the precursder factory?
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #103 on: July 29, 2003, 11:25:38 pm »

Ask them. They did it.

EDIT: oops, no they didn't. My bad.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2003, 07:39:19 pm by Death_999 » Logged
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #104 on: July 30, 2003, 09:13:30 am »

I know you will be mad again BUT....

How you got another precurder ship in SC3 if the factory was destroyed?!?!? Hmmmmmmm? Answer that!!!
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