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Author Topic: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the story  (Read 37004 times)
Nic.
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #105 on: July 30, 2003, 07:52:05 pm »

Deep_Jiffa:  Wow.  Argumentative, uninformed AND illiterate.  That, my friend, is what we call a hat trick!  Colour me impressed; without people like you we might actually have to put up with intelligent discourse around here!  That would be a crying shame.  If someone isn't calling a person they disagree with an "asshat", it's just not a good day, am I right?

I know it might tax your meager skills to do so, but go read some of the older posts on this forum to see what most of the contributors to this forum think of SC3.  We've discussed it to death already, and I don't think it's a topic worth resurrecting simply because you could not be bothered to read about what has come before you.
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pie
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #106 on: July 30, 2003, 09:07:28 pm »

Too bad p&f did not expend the game about the arilou\orz relations I know the game is focused about interferring with the docotirnal war and destroying the Sa-Matra but it could be more then nice if they just worked on the other *times* too, like entering the taalo\orz realm, maybe Paul and Fred will create a new Star Control someday

ALL RIGHT A PETITION
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pie
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #107 on: July 30, 2003, 09:08:25 pm »

*ALL, WRITE A PETITION
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Krogoth255
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #108 on: July 31, 2003, 01:30:18 am »

Slyandro aren't worth slave-shielding they are pracaticly, trapped on a gas giant no physical means to develop any sort of technology and it's likely the Un-Quan have forgotten their existance after millelia of enslavement and traveling throught space pratacing their doctrines
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #109 on: July 31, 2003, 01:50:39 am »

pie, P&F already know that lots of people want to play a new SC game:
http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~starcontrol/petition/
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #110 on: August 02, 2003, 06:42:31 am »

Not entirely relevant to this thread, but I'd like to bring to your attention the thread ATTN Fred: Groombridge dialog.

It involves the director's cut(!!!!) of SC2, and everybody is more than welcome to reply to it, after reading meep-eeps very enlightening comments on the subject.

This involves more than just fixing ideas, it is about putting in all the ideas meant to be there in the first place. Any contributions you guys can make will be great
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #111 on: August 03, 2003, 07:58:46 pm »

It would be great if it's added an optional subplot of getting Aqua Helix without destruction of Thraddash by Illwarth.

In my opinion, it was the biggest downer in SC2 plot.
I mean, you finnaly make peace with these guys.
They almost worship you as good.

And then, you must become biggest bastard, by sending Illwarth on them and taking thier beloved Aqua Helix.


P.S.
It could be something related to help fighting Illwarth.
You help them in some way, they get not destroyed, and you get the Helix because some ancient Thardash text prediced this happening.
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Death 999
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #112 on: August 03, 2003, 09:55:29 pm »

Perhaps you can tell the Ilwrath to go steal the Aqua Helix for you, then you counter-steal it from them. The Thraddash never find out that you did it.
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #113 on: August 04, 2003, 12:18:03 pm »

It's very easy to keep an alliance with the Thraddash. Just follow these simple steps:

1) Befriend the Thraddash.
2) Go get the Aqua Helix.
3) Never ever encounter another Thraddash ship again.
4) Don't send the Ilwrath to kill them.

As long as you don't encounter another Thraddash ship, they won't break thier alliance with you and you're still able to build thier ships. I know it's not really a bug per se, but it is a bit odd. I suppose this could be popped into the list of story inconsistancies.

EDIT: Neither the Ilwrath nor the Thraddash know who really made the order for their (near?) eradication. The Ilwrath think Dogar and Kazon made the order, and the Thraddash likely won't care since they'd be too busy defending thier space.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2003, 12:20:06 pm by sageallen » Logged
Death 999
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #114 on: August 05, 2003, 07:34:10 pm »

But you can't have them as your ALLIES then... Just not your sworn enemy.
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #115 on: August 05, 2003, 10:22:40 pm »

Quote


The slylandro have indicated that they have a height range, and if they go too low then bad bad things happen.


Detonation does not require collision. Ever heard of depth charges? They are bombs launched from ships that fall through the water and explode after a given period of time. If they are near enough to a submarine, they will damage it, perhaps enough to destroy it. No collisions (unless you consider the pressure wave to be a bunch of water molecule collisions).


"Any" projectile?
A) there is no chemical that destroys everything (though you can come up with combinations that come pretty close, they also react with each other -- e.g. strong acid, strong base)
B) you can always make the projectile fatter and fatter, thus giving the atmosphere  matter to eat away while leaving matter in the middle undisturbed. Take a couple 10 Km asteroids and dump them -- instant hydrogen bomb strength detonation along a column!
C) You can also put things inside the asteroid, in nested pressure vessels. Things such as hydrogen bombs or poisons.

We're talking about conventional weapons here, not depth charges or "fat" bombs.  I mean, at least TRY to apply your brain here for a second.  Do you really think the Ur-Quan carry around such weapons?  Do you think they would develop such weapons just to destroy a race that can't ever leave its home planet anyway?  Yes, it would be a huge waste of resources.
Quote

And slave-shielding Vela wasn't a waste of resources?
No, it wasn't.  The humans on Vela would be capable of leaving if someone were to give them a ride.  This is something that the Slylandro CANNOT do under any circumstances.
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #116 on: August 05, 2003, 10:28:17 pm »

As far as the new Precursor ship goes, one *is* shown during the ending sequence of the 3DO version of SC2, but the game deliberately refuses to tell us where it came from.  TFB needs to hurry up with a new SC game to explain this to us.  Grin
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #117 on: August 05, 2003, 11:38:58 pm »

Quote
We're talking about conventional weapons here, not depth charges or "fat" bombs.


We are? Oh, why? A fat bomb is really quite simple. All you need is a regular old fission nuke (which should be fairly standard technology among the technologically advanced Ur-Quan), surround it with a few thousand tons of deuterium and tritium, implant this into an asteroid, and nudge into gas giant. Note that hydrogen, including deuterium and tritium are plentiful in the neighborhood of a gas giant, and so are lots of large asteroids. The material cost is thus basically provided-for. It will just take some time.

So, either branch of Ur-Quan can provide the death threat. The Kzer-Za would probably throw up a slave shield just to be on the safe side; the Kohr-Ah would carry it out.

As for 'not ever being able to leave': I don't see it as that iron-clad. They may not have the ability to build their own spacefaring vessels, but a fairly concerted effort could, I am sure, produce pressure vessels strong enough for them. Then they would be all over the place! OMG! Freedom! Can't have that.


Quote
I mean, at least TRY to apply your brain here for a second.

...
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I'll let that one fall on its own demerits.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2003, 11:43:19 pm by Death_999 » Logged
Nic.
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #118 on: August 06, 2003, 12:17:45 am »

I am personally fond of the notion that slave shields don't "scale" up to the size of a gas giant for whatever reason.  This means that it would be impossible to imprison them, pointless to enslave them (since they were not spacefaring), and meaningless to destroy them (since they have zero prospects of becoming spacefaring, as and as such pose no threat) so they simply ignored them.

The slave shield at Vela was different in this regard because 1) it was a small, rocky world (if you assume that my original assertion is true) and 2) there was hyperspace activity detected in the system, meaning the inhabitants were technologically advanced enough to travel through space.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2003, 12:19:27 am by Nic. » Logged
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Re: Looking post-1.0: "Shoring up" the s
« Reply #119 on: August 07, 2003, 06:00:43 pm »

Well, I am not that hardcore on SC2 yet, I am actually finally getting to play it all the way through thanks to this conversion project.

Most of you hardcore people probably dont ever have reason to talk to the starbase commander about galactic history any more, being so into the game and all, which is why someone hasent noticed a plothole the commander mentions.  While telling you about the Precursors, the commander mentions some of the artifacts they have found, inculding "a starbase in alpha centuri".

Plot Hole: What starbase at alpha centuri?  As far as i could see, there wasnt one there.

Now, there could be a couple ways of fixing this.
1) Just leave it alone and figure nobody really cares.  Not the exciting option but clearly the least work.
2) Actually implement a starbase at alpha centuri.  I think, if this were to be done, that it would require a new graphic, because I doubt the precursor's would look like the only existing starbase graphic (the earth one).  As far as whats at the starbase, it could be as simple as a little text message saying "hey, yeah its a precursor starbase..... and its really empty, and really useless.  The Xeno guys will love it though".  Allthough the text should be easy to put in, I dont know how hard doing some sort of incounter in space of that nature would be (seeing as incounters with just text happen on surfaces traditionally).
3) Implement some other explanation.  The commander could say something about how the humans towed it somewhere for further study, or declared it scrap and decided to take it apart, both to learn anything they could and for the free recources it represented.  For that matter, most players encounter the trademasters at alpha centari first, so having the trader (but only that one trader) say something in passing about how "why, at this very star there used to be an amazing Precursor space station, before its orbit decayed and it fell into the sun" would work.  But, this option would take more work because it would require voice acting or some other form of plot tweak.

Its not like this is a big deal or anything, but it strikes me as an atmosphere thing that adds to the game in a small way.  It seems to me the Precursors would have left more than a few shiney convienent devices, and if enountered early would give a new player the impression that space is littered with precursor junk, making the acceptance of some of the other highly convient objects a bit easyer to swallow.

Then again, for a game this good my suspension of disbelief factor is so high I dont really mind that space is littered with a collection of artifacts which happen to perfectly conincide with what I need.


I sure hope that this wasnt covered elsewhere in the game, or that there wasnt actually a starbase there and I missed it, cause then I'd look stupid, which is never good for your first post.    Smiley
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