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Author Topic: How was the real universe created?  (Read 21986 times)
Rain
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How was the real universe created?
« on: May 24, 2003, 11:15:02 pm »

Perhaps the one who created the real universe would respond to this thread just like Fred did the other one...

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Kohr-Ah_Primat
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Re: How was the real universe created?
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2003, 12:25:22 am »

...and you've never heard of the Big Bang Theory?

Or, for more religious and esoteric types... The Book of Genesis?
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Re: How was the real universe created?
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2003, 12:35:32 am »

I just flipped a few bits.

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Re: How was the real universe created?
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2003, 01:00:32 am »

Don't think about it too much or your head will fall off. Big Bang/"Let there be light" is good enough for now.
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Lukipela
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Re: How was the real universe created?
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2003, 01:00:59 am »

I saw that one coming a mile away... har har har as the Umgah would say.
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AnonomouSpathi
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Re: How was the real universe created?
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2003, 10:44:10 am »

What would lead you to believe that this universe is real?
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Lukipela
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Re: How was the real universe created?
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2003, 05:01:40 pm »

Right, no more Matrix for you....
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AnonomouSpathi
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Re: How was the real universe created?
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2003, 03:00:23 am »

I was thinking Alice in Wonderland, actually.
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Gill_Bates
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Re: How was the real universe created?
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2003, 04:32:53 am »

Well. It was a programing experience gone awry... sorry folkes!
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Re: How was the real universe created?
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2003, 09:20:13 am »

No, no more -Matrix- for you.

I cannot tell you how sick I am of people using the Matrix as a reference point to theorizing that the world we live in isn't truly real. It's really not that original a concept. People have been asking themselves this since before the days of Plato and Aristotle.

Hell, I think the concept pushed by The Truman Show was a much more original concept than the Matrix, even though that's been done before too. (That you are the only person who is truly real and absolutely everyone and everything in the world around you is prefabricated specifically to fit around you in order to convince you that you are not the only truly real person.)

And I mean don't get me wrong, I love the Matrix movies. I love the concept of living in a digital world where we can bend the rules if we know how and 'manipulate' the system.

Okay, to keep this post from completely ignoring the topic of this thread..

The universe came into existence simply because there was no other option.

There could just have easily been absolutely no universe, anywhere, at all, no such thing as time, no such thing as distance, space, matter, life, thought, light, darkness, anything. There could easily have been no such thing as a universe, no such thing as non-matter within which the universe was created. There could have easily been simply nothing at all. No realities where anything existed or even had meaning.

The flip side of that coin is that there are an infinite number of possibilities in an infinite amount of space in an infinite amount of time. An infinite number of realities wherein an infinite number of possibilities can take place, and DO take place.

The vast majority haven't big-banged yet. An even more vast majority of them don't have life in them at all. An even more vast majority of them don't have Earth. An even more vast majority of them don't have life on Earth. An even more vast majority of them aren't in a frame of time where life actually has come to exist or continues to exist on Earth. An even more vast majority of them don't have -sentient- life on Earth.

So we are amongst the tiny, tiny, tiny, impossibly few minority possibilities that exist in a reality and universe that allows conditions permits us to and allows us to even contemplate our existence in the universe.

So that brings us back to the original question. How the did the universe come about? Simply because there was no option for it not to, once the 50/50 chance of -any- reality existing at all in the first place was established. So how is it that life came to exist in this universe, given the impossible odds?

Let's put it this way. If you didn't exist, or wasn't sentient, would you ever know? Of course not. The very fact that you can even ponder how you got here is because you live in one of the lucky few realities that lets you. The very fact that you exist is because you have to.

As the phrase goes, "I think, therefore I am."

I prefer the point Raymond E. Feist uses in one of his books.
"We're here because there would be no point to having any of this around if noone were here to witness it all."
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Re: How was the real universe created?
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2003, 10:31:44 am »

well, you see, there was this sock and one day, as i went to take the trash out...
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Re: How was the real universe created?
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2003, 11:22:42 am »

Somebody flick Kohr-Ah's rant switch off please ...  Tongue

No, but seriously you are right. The odds of life actually combining from the "primordial soup" are ENOURMOUSLY remote. That is not including the odds of a proper planet being in place to begin with.

If you have ever heard of the movement known as "scientific creationism" they go to great lengths to point out these statistical "impossibilities" as they refer to them.

They, however, skipped their calculus lessons. Time is infinte in the Universe... As is the size of the Universe, also infinite. An infinite number of planets, stars, and an infinite number of chances for life to be created out of the "primordial soup" that it is supposed to start from.

With that being said, it is impossible for life not to occur in the universe. But it is INCREDIBLY improbable for any sort of life to exist anywhere even remotely close to us in the Universe.

Unless of course our probability calculations are all wrong and there might be life everywhere, but based on what we know so far... that is not the case.
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AnonomouSpathi
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Re: How was the real universe created?
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2003, 12:01:29 pm »

And on what exactly are you basing your assumption that life coming out of the primordial soup is very unlikely?  Lab tests, despite being useful, are highly limited in simulating accurately a system as complex as an entire planet.  Even with our best computers, the friggin weather report is barely more accurate then Joe the farmers "Reckon it'll rain".  All protests of 'It's so unlikely that life would form on earth' ultimately add up to zilch, squat, zero.  An extremely arrogant attempt to declare the possibilities in a mind boggling complex system based on lab tests that are even less reliable then the weather channel prediction.

I will not treat those claims of impossibility any more seriously then I would a weatherman saying it is impossible it would rain tommorow.  
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The_Ultimate_Evil
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Re: How was the real universe created?
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2003, 12:16:13 pm »

Notice at the end I said, "Unless of course our probability calculations are all wrong and there might be life everywhere, but based on what we know so far... that is not the case"

They have run models of probability for life forming, many times. The results indicate that the probability of life forming is extremely low. As i said, the probability calculations could be all wrong.

Please read the entire post before replying to something in it...

In any case, it doesn't matter if the probability of life forming is 1 in 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
or 100%

Either way, the odds of life forming somewhere, at some time in the Universe is 100%. Here we are, hence life formed.
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Lukipela
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Re: How was the real universe created?
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2003, 03:54:06 pm »

Quote
No, no more -Matrix- for you.

I cannot tell you how sick I am of people using the Matrix as a reference point to theorizing that the world we live in isn't truly real. It's really not that original a concept. People have been asking themselves this since before the days of Plato and Aristotle.

Hell, I think the concept pushed by The Truman Show was a much more original concept than the Matrix, even though that's been done before too. (That you are the only person who is truly real and absolutely everyone and everything in the world around you is prefabricated specifically to fit around you in order to convince you that you are not the only truly real person.)


Now now, calm down. Wink However much you may dislike the Matrix, there are certain pros to using it... I do agree with you (well it is fact, so it'd be hard not to  Tongue ), the idea for the Matrix is nothing new. It's been used in any amount of books, and quite a few movies as well, and in some cases much better... However, if I quote some book or movie I saw five years ago, or even the Truman show (which was't that big over here, a lot of people aren't going to get the reference. However, I say the word "Matrix", and EVERYBODY knows what I'm talking about. It's used as a refernce point. And when one refers to something, it is usually a good thing if everyone knows what one is referring to.

Also, please note that this isn't meant to be arrogant in the I've-seen-and-know-so-much-more-than-the-rest-of-you-klutzes way. But as most of us come from different cultures, I simply feel it is easier to use big reference points rather than obscure ones. I know I hate it when someone refers to a movie/book/whatever that was only ever aired in the US or Japan...

Going back on topic I really have noting more to add. Clearly, the universe exists. So do we. While we may theoretize on how and why it started, chances are we'll never know...
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