The Ur-Quan Masters Home Page Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
August 09, 2022, 03:58:22 am
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Paul & Fred have reached a settlement with Stardock!

+  The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum
|-+  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release
| |-+  General UQM Discussion (Moderator: Death 999)
| | |-+  Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 Print
Author Topic: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion  (Read 6982 times)
Valaggar
Guest


Email
Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« on: March 20, 2007, 03:54:32 pm »

A. I wonder why don't the Yehat and Utwig use shielding computers as the Earthlings use Point Defense computers for automation.
Or why didn't the Umgah mount their retropropulsion in the front of their ships.
Of course the reason would be "balance and fun", but besides that, I would like a background story.
So far I have come with two possible explanations (psychological / physical):
1. Psychological The honour of the Yehat makes them want not to use "unfair" aids such as automatic shielding.
    The sophisticated culture of the Utwig makes them to consider even shielding as something that must be done with a ceremony, so this doesn't allow automation.
    The inventor of the retropropulsion made a prank to the rest of the Umgah by mounting the retropropulsion at the backside of the Drones, although it was supposed to be in front.
2. Physical The Yehat&Utwig shields must first be "charged" before usage (and this takes a random time). As such, they can't target the activation time so well.
    Mounting the retropropulsion forward would cause the Drone to collide with its own antimatter cone.

I would rather believe in the psychological explanations.

B. If an Utwig captain times perfectly his shielding everytime, in SuperMelee he would be invincible. However, in the game's universe, there must be a way to break the shield. Perhaps by attacking with a very powerful weapon or by continously shooting until some energy finally breaks through?
Plus, the shield doesn't protect the ship from damage via collision with the planet. Why? Perhaps the shield does not defend against kinetic weaponry that is powerful enough (the Kohr-Ah disks are not enough).
Logged
jucce
Frungy champion
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 95



View Profile
Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2007, 07:24:23 pm »

Maybe they feel that the shielding is so important that they want to control it manually. After all different tactics and different flying patterns/manoeuvres require applying the shield at just the right second and no-one (i.e. a computer) knows exactly what the captain wants/is going to do except himself.
Logged
countchocula86
*Smell* controller
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 345


Culture 20!


View Profile
Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2007, 07:31:25 pm »

Maybe they came across program glitchings. Perhaps the shield was firing too late, and ships were getting hit anyways.

Then again, creating vast fleets of ships costs money and resouces, n'est pas? Perhaps highly integrated, intelligent computers would cost a pretty penny, and these races decided that it would be better to build 5 live-manned ships, to 1 expensive but automated ship.

As to the Umgah, were there not some issues of pilots pulsing themselves into their own anti-matter cones? Therefore, a retropulse system was made instead.
Logged

I like to think you killed a man. It's the romantic in me.
Valaggar
Guest


Email
Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2007, 07:38:59 pm »

Where did you get the Umgah data from?

And the shields - ah, costs? Quality is better than quantity, especially in this case and for the Utwig. They would be virtually unbeatable! I'd rather incline to the psychological explanation here.
Plus, how much did you pay for your computer?
And how much did you pay for your house?
Well, a Jugger is even more expensive than your house.
Logged
jucce
Frungy champion
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 95



View Profile
Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2007, 08:00:04 pm »

Specify.
Normally you won't want to be hit, no matter by what.
And you could always deactivate autoshielding if you needed. Or program it in a smarter way.
Maybe they have auto-shielding but it's disabled. Maybe their enemies could abuse the auto-shielding and deplete their energy. And if the timing of the shields are off you could run out of power and be defenseless. Like I said, the captain may want to perform a special attack pattern and wishes to control the exact timing of the shields. The computer doesn't know what he's planning like he does.
Logged
Draxas
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1044



View Profile
Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2007, 11:09:54 pm »

Early prototypes of both Terminators and Juggers both incorporated threat detection AIs paired with the shielding mechanisms. However, the same problem was encountered during field testing on both models: simply activating the computers created a tremendous strain on the power generation capabilites of the ships batteries. In the case of the Yehat, they found that the computer was so energy intensive that it quadrupled the energy consumption of the shield when activated, making the activation window very brief indeed, and halved the regenration rate of the batteries when the shield was turned off. Their engineers deemed the AI an unacceptable drain on the ships resources, which hampered the ship's performance greatly, and the system was scrapped after several updated prototypes were unable to reduce the energy consumption significantly. Utwig engineers experienced a similar situation during field tests, but even more exaggerated; they were surprised to find that the shields never activated at all, and dismayed the discover that their AI emptied the ship's batteries within seconds after activation before mock-combat could even be engaged, rendering the entire shielding system useless. This was considered an instantly fatal flaw in design, and the project was cancelled and personnell reassigned after the first test, before the prototype could even be updated once.

Why did the Umgah attach their boosters as retro-rockets rather than afterburners? Because they thought it would be pretty funny to hurtle at an opponent full-tilt with the ship facing backwards. Har har har!
Logged
Valaggar
Guest


Email
Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2007, 02:41:08 pm »

Ah, I see that the Umgah problem is very simple. Everybody agrees with the psychological explanation, even if there as some small variations.

About the shielding though:
A. jucce's argument: Auto-shielding means shielding everytime when it's needed. Not shielding when you're not going to be hit. You aren't going to fall for such shielding tricks. So in fact auto-shielding would only do good.
B. Draxas' argument: While I like the way you present this explanation, I am forced to reply: No, the AI doesn't consume so much energy. I mean, keeping your computer open - even if your house is running on batteries - isn't going to hamper greatly the energy reserved for lighting.
I mean, an entire colossal ship consumes only twice or so than a computer?! Huh?
Logged
Novus
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1938


Fot or not?


View Profile
Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2007, 03:43:15 pm »

I mean, an entire colossal ship consumes only twice or so than a computer?! Huh?
Even a scaled-up Analytical Engine probably wouldn't use that much power. Computing technology is not mentioned much in Star Control (apart from advanced Precursor ones), but I still find it hard to believe that a spacefaring race would not be able to implement threat detection far superior to manual shield activation with only minimal power requirements (especially since current Human technology would be more than adequate for the job).
Logged

RTFM = Read the fine manual.
RTTFAQ = Read the Ur-Quan Masters Technical FAQ.
Valaggar
Guest


Email
Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2007, 03:46:30 pm »

So we should stick with the psychological explanation for everything.


Anyway, there was also the second point to discuss:
B. If an Utwig captain times perfectly his shielding everytime, in SuperMelee he would be invincible. However, in the game's universe, there must be a way to break the shield. Perhaps by attacking with a very powerful weapon or by continously shooting until some energy finally breaks through?
Plus, the shield doesn't protect the ship from damage via collision with the planet. Why? Perhaps the shield does not defend against kinetic weaponry that is powerful enough (the Kohr-Ah disks are not enough).
Logged
Death 999
Global Moderator
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3866


We did. You did. Yes we can. No.


View Profile
Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2007, 04:14:44 pm »

As for the Umgah, I thought that the retro-thrust system was in some way the same system as the antimatter cone, so that they had to be oriented the same way.
Logged
Draxas
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1044



View Profile
Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2007, 04:59:26 pm »

I mean, an entire colossal ship consumes only twice or so than a computer?! Huh?
Even a scaled-up Analytical Engine probably wouldn't use that much power. Computing technology is not mentioned much in Star Control (apart from advanced Precursor ones), but I still find it hard to believe that a spacefaring race would not be able to implement threat detection far superior to manual shield activation with only minimal power requirements (especially since current Human technology would be more than adequate for the job).

Bah. It was just a silly, if completely different, theory than the ones proposed. I was just (perhaps not-so-subtly nor terribly effectively) pointing out that there could be technical limitations that we are unaware of.

If you prefer, how's this explanation: The best AI either race could come up with for the shielding systems was the Awesome AI, so they decided it would be more prudent to just work the system manually. Tongue
Logged
Valaggar
Guest


Email
Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2007, 05:41:45 pm »

 Grin
Hahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!
Hahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!
Hahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL


Anyway, there was also the second point to discuss:
B. If an Utwig captain times perfectly his shielding everytime, in SuperMelee he would be invincible. However, in the game's universe, there must be a way to break the shield. Perhaps by attacking with a very powerful weapon or by continously shooting until some energy finally breaks through?
Plus, the shield doesn't protect the ship from damage via collision with the planet. Why? Perhaps the shield does not defend against kinetic weaponry that is powerful enough (the Kohr-Ah disks are not enough).
Logged
Draxas
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1044



View Profile
Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2007, 06:40:17 pm »

Starships in the Star Control universe are not designed for atmospheric flight, which is why landers are used. A "collision" with a planet actually represents a near-miss, with the ship taking damage due to the lack of heat shielding necessary to protect against reentry. Utwig and Yehat shield systems are designed to absorb energy projectiles and deflect kinetic projectiles, but this all-around heat damage is too much for the system to compensate for.

As for the perfectly-shielded Utwig... Well, no pilot is perfect. Eventually they'll screw up.
Logged
countchocula86
*Smell* controller
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 345


Culture 20!


View Profile
Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2007, 06:53:12 pm »

Well if we look at the Utwig, when they take a hit, their energy goes up, so its fair to say they absorb the energy. Now if science fiction has taught me anything, its that if you charge enough energy into something it'll eventually 'splode!


Quote
especially since current Human technology would be more than adequate for the job).

We have energy shields??!??!
Logged

I like to think you killed a man. It's the romantic in me.
Novus
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1938


Fot or not?


View Profile
Re: Injection 8: Utwig and Yehat shielding, Umgah retropropulsion
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2007, 07:07:00 pm »

Quote
especially since current Human technology would be more than adequate for the job).
We have energy shields??!??!
Smiley No, but we have the computers to control them.
Logged

RTFM = Read the fine manual.
RTTFAQ = Read the Ur-Quan Masters Technical FAQ.
Pages: [1] 2 3 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!