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Dunii_Darkhand
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Space Layering (Sphere Theory)
« on: February 02, 2013, 10:44:44 pm »

WARNING: This may contain spoilers regarding some races and StarControl 2 physics.
Before proceeding, know that this theory relies on HyperSpace being an independent dimension from TrueSpace.
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Elestan
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Re: Space Layering (Sphere Theory)
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2013, 02:05:13 am »

Just a hunch, but I suspect you may have put more thought into this cosmology than TfB did when they made the game.
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Ceres
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Re: Space Layering (Sphere Theory)
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2013, 12:25:33 pm »

And I would think that *Pretty Space* equals Quasi-Space, since I always feel that the green color and mysterious music of that dimension is quite beautiful and appealing, so it's easy to imagine the Orz feeling the same.
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Death 999
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Re: Space Layering (Sphere Theory)
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2013, 01:18:22 pm »

I'm not sure why you didn't just layer them flat. What does curving it onto a sphere actually accomplish here?
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Ceres
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Re: Space Layering (Sphere Theory)
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2013, 02:08:48 pm »

I'm not sure why you didn't just layer them flat. What does curving it onto a sphere actually accomplish here?
I think it's so that Arilou and Orz can know about each other. If it was layered then they would literally be dimensions apart.
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Dunii_Darkhand
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Re: Space Layering (Sphere Theory)
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2013, 06:12:14 pm »

I'm not sure why you didn't just layer them flat. What does curving it onto a sphere actually accomplish here?
I think it's so that Arilou and Orz can know about each other. If it was layered then they would literally be dimensions apart.

Frankly, I think spheres are cool and somehow made more sense.
What you said is true, though, they would literally be dimensions apart in such a way that they couldn't really stumble upon each other by accident.
I also chose a sphere because it could better explain the I.D.P., since I could relate it to a planet with TrueSpace being the core.

Although, thinking about it, the flat layering of the dimensions could have been what kept the Orz from noticing the Arilou, though before I assumed
it was their TrueSpace eddy that did that. Does anyone have any ideas why the stars in the eddy are red?

And I would think that *Pretty Space* equals Quasi-Space, since I always feel that the green color and mysterious music of that dimension is quite beautiful and appealing, so it's easy to imagine the Orz feeling the same.

That's true. I honestly had no idea where to put *Pretty Space*, unless some dimensions are the same by their names. I assumed since the Orz had called them differently that the would be different. I also speculated that *Pretty Space* was the point where Quasi, Hyper, Hypo, and *Below* met, since that point could potentially be 'the boundary between turbulence and order'. So anything could happen, they could shape it by their thoughts. This could make it whatever the person wanted, so it would be pretty to them.

This is roughly my original diagram of the dimensions before I revised it.
(click to show/hide)


It was *Pretty Space* that closed off the edges of the dimensions, though to do that it the dimensions would have to have been curved already. The *Pretty Space* is part of a temporal causality loop, it curved the edges of the universe so it could create *Pretty Space* so it could curve the edges of the universe and so on. That means that *Pretty Space* is the perfect place to hide, since its existence is very suspect to change, but if you are in it and it changes you will be fine because you can will yourself to live in there and you still would, as you are in 'the boundary between turbulence and order'.

*Pretty Space* is awesome.
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Ceres
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Re: Space Layering (Sphere Theory)
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2013, 01:29:37 am »

I don't understand the Orz too much: they are barely aware of TrueSpace, they seem new to it, yet they do have knowledge about other types of dimensional beings (Arilou, Taalo). I think that means that their dimensions have to be closer related to *Below* than TrueSpace is.
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Death 999
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Re: Space Layering (Sphere Theory)
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2013, 03:57:10 pm »

I'm not sure why you didn't just layer them flat. What does curving it onto a sphere actually accomplish here?
I think it's so that Arilou and Orz can know about each other. If it was layered then they would literally be dimensions apart.

Frankly, I think spheres are cool and somehow made more sense.
What you said is true, though, they would literally be dimensions apart in such a way that they couldn't really stumble upon each other by accident.

Arilou are hardly the accidental tourists of dimensional travel.

And pardon me if 'somehow made more sense' without elaboration doesn't convince.
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Re: Space Layering (Sphere Theory)
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2013, 01:55:39 am »

Just a hunch, but I suspect you may have put more thought into this cosmology than TfB did when they made the game.

You're probably right about that.  Personally, I still find it fun to engage in these sorts of hypothetical discussions though.  I think it's a mark of the quality in the game tha tpeople ares till this fascinated with the fluff of the setting 20 years past its initial publication.

I'm not sure why you didn't just layer them flat. What does curving it onto a sphere actually accomplish here?
I think it's so that Arilou and Orz can know about each other. If it was layered then they would literally be dimensions apart.

I never thought of the Arilou as being native to Quasispace.  Their homeworld looks like it's in TrueSpace, it's just accessed via QuasiSpace (another "bi-dimensional portal," as the OP calls them.  The Arilou are unquestionably far advanced in the realm of inter-dimensional travel, so I imagine they've had plenty of opportunities to encounter the Orz, among other species from "other places," regardless of how the interdimensional layers are actually arranged.

In fact, I would be inclined to argue that the Arilou have probably been to *Below* once or twice and lived to tell about it.  If they can change our *smell* to hide us from the Orz, they can certainly change their own *smell* too.

Does anyone have any ideas why the stars in the eddy are red?

I had always chalked it up to the inter-dimensional equivalent of gravitational lensing.

I don't understand the Orz too much: they are barely aware of TrueSpace, they seem new to it, yet they do have knowledge about other types of dimensional beings (Arilou, Taalo). I think that means that their dimensions have to be closer related to *Below* than TrueSpace is.

I would agree with the assessment that the Orz are "barely aware" of TrueSpace.  I think that's more a matter of perspective than of them being "new to it" though.  I think that TrueSpace is something the Orz have known about for a while, but never really considered it worth investigating until the Androsynth got their attention.  Sort of like how humanity has known about the sea for ages, yet we've only just begun to scratch the surface of exploring what's *beneath* it.

I'm also not sure how much "distance" really matters between dimensions.  The portal that leads from QuasiSpace to the Arilou homeworld appears to go directly from QuasiSpace to TrueSpace, if the colouring is any indication.  There could just as easily be portals that go directly from *Above* to *Below* for all we know.
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Re: Space Layering (Sphere Theory)
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2013, 07:16:19 pm »

What is this hypospace you talk about? I don't remember any mention of it in the game.

I always imagined it to go in this order:
Quasispace
Hyperspace
Truespace
*Below*
*Pretty" Space
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Re: Space Layering (Sphere Theory)
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2013, 05:16:03 am »

What is this hypospace you talk about? I don't remember any mention of it in the game.

I always imagined it to go in this order:
Quasispace
Hyperspace
Truespace
*Below*
*Pretty" Space

I originally thought that Hypospace could have been *Pretty Space*, though now it seems I might have actually been convinced otherwise. HypoSpace was mainly just another word for the opposite for HyperSpace. Beyond that I honestly have no reason for calling it what I did. It could be layered the way you said. I think though that since the Arilou are from *Above*, which would be QuasiSpace, that *Below* would be equally away from TrueSpace in terms of dimensions. So there would have to be a space in between, and that's where HypoSpace (babies) came from.

 

I'm not sure why you didn't just layer them flat. What does curving it onto a sphere actually accomplish here?
I think it's so that Arilou and Orz can know about each other. If it was layered then they would literally be dimensions apart.

I never thought of the Arilou as being native to Quasispace.  Their homeworld looks like it's in TrueSpace, it's just accessed via QuasiSpace (another "bi-dimensional portal," as the OP calls them.  The Arilou are unquestionably far advanced in the realm of inter-dimensional travel, so I imagine they've had plenty of opportunities to encounter the Orz, among other species from "other places," regardless of how the interdimensional layers are actually arranged.

In fact, I would be inclined to argue that the Arilou have probably been to *Below* once or twice and lived to tell about it.  If they can change our *smell* to hide us from the Orz, they can certainly change their own *smell* too.

I personally assumed they were safe from the Orz because of their QuasiSpace-TrueSpace "eddy." That's also why I think that the Arilou were native to QuasiSpace, because of their "eddy."
I would have to agree with you when you say that the Arilou have been to *Below* before. The abilities of the Orz though, as they are the TrueSpace manifestation of 'Them', could be superior to the Arilou Lalee'lay. In fact 'Them' as a whole could have been aware of the Arilou before they were even capable of they inter-dimensional travel, but watched them similar to how they watched us. It could be because of this that 'They' want to find the Earth and the Humans, since the Arilou were watching us and became aware of 'Them' watching them. They could have known about them seeing the Humans but didn't know where, since the only known TrueSpace manifestation of 'Them' is the Orz, and they only found the Androsynth because they revealed themselves. The fact that the Precursor vessel has IDF technology and the Captain's knowledge of IDF could lead to the Arilou having to remove the Captain's presence from TrueSpace entirely, as to protect the rest of the Humans.



I'm not sure why you didn't just layer them flat. What does curving it onto a sphere actually accomplish here?
I think it's so that Arilou and Orz can know about each other. If it was layered then they would literally be dimensions apart.

Frankly, I think spheres are cool and somehow made more sense.
What you said is true, though, they would literally be dimensions apart in such a way that they couldn't really stumble upon each other by accident.

Arilou are hardly the accidental tourists of dimensional travel.

And pardon me if 'somehow made more sense' without elaboration doesn't convince.

Fair enough, I was playing on it being obvious because I really was too tired to bother explaining (too little sleep.) What I meant was this. You know how the universe was created by the Big Bang, which exploded in all directions. If something expands in all directions it would form a sphere. Since it keeps expanding in those directions I assumed that a sphere would be more scientifically accurate than a flat rendition.
It's also true that Arilou would likely be searching the dimensions for other life, but actually finding something could be an accident depending on  how it was found. IE: if you found something you were looking for in a place you didn't expect it, I would personally equate it to an accident. A purposeful accident, but an accident nonetheless.


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