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Author Topic: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers*  (Read 87761 times)
Chrispy
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #240 on: February 07, 2004, 08:17:25 pm »

The idea of explaining the precursers is not bad on its own, but is a very very broad idea.
The way they did it is what I don't like at all.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #241 on: August 01, 2004, 02:41:12 am »

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1) "Arilou are from *above*. Orz are from *below*." What the hell is this supposed to mean?


The Arilou are from Quasispace and the Orz are from an as-unnamed space.  'In between' would be 'normal space'- the realm which we inhabit.

A more vague interpretation would be that the Arilou are from one dimension, and the Orz are from another.  Basically the same thing, but this theory implies that Quasispace is not nessecarily the Arilou's home.

Personally I'd have to go with the former.

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2) "We seek to trap *Nggn*, but they dart and leap. YOU cannot catch *Nggn*, do not even try. I don't think you are quite solid enough." What the hell is this supposed to mean?


Nggn sounds like some sort of creature -remember when they mentioned their catch and release policy?  As for not being quite solid enough, its alluded to in related conversations with various races throughout the game- you, as a normal human, exist in only one plane at a time.  

In contrast, the Orz and the Arilou are pandimensional beings that can exist on more than one plane at once.  In fact, its pretty much stated flat out that the Orz that we know are not in fact the real Orz- they are just projections, or 'fingers'.

It stands to reason, then, that the same is true of the Arilou- though their comments on their comrades being 'forcefully discorporated' during the War with the Ur-Quan can be interpreted as belieing that theory.

In any event, the idea is that other 'realities' inhabit the same space as our own, but we cannot touch them.  A being that can be in more than one reality at once CAN, by its very nature, touch things in more than one reality, thus, the 'not solid enough' comment.

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3) Can anyone make a good translation of the Orz language, of the best terms to use for the terms in their lingual best-fits?


The lingual best fits are like Chinese symbols, they generally do not stand for any one word, but rather, for a concept or series of words.

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4) What ARE the Orz? The way they talk, it seems like they are actually one single entity that somehow projects multiple selves in our dimension ("I am Orz. I am one with many *fingers* My *fingers* spread into *heavy space*, etc. etc.). And what the hell DID they do with the Androsynth?


They're either one single entity (mmm, the Mycon come to mind here.. but thats probably a false trail), or a community of entities, which can project themselves into other realities- like ours.

As for what they did with the Androsynth- the Orz either killed them or are keeping them captive and doing unpleasant things to them.

Personally I suspect that they got 'eaten'- though perhaps not in the traditional, gory way.

If one presumes that the Orz are 'they', or that the Orz have things in common with 'they', then the Arilou's comment about 'they' being some kind of parasites casts a sinister shadow over the mysterious lack of bodies among the shattered Androsynth buildings.

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5) On the topic of Orz language, what do you think they mean when they say that the Taalo are playing *time tricks* on them in *pretty space*?


Pretty space- Hyperspace, Quasispace, or the aforementioned as-yet-unnamed-space.    This being as opposed to 'Heavy space', which is very clearly our 'normal' space.

As for time tricks.. I honestly haven't the foggiest...  maybe it means some Taalo are still alive?  The interdimensional beings in this game tend to have a very different view of 'time', so we can't really be sure WHAT that means.

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6) What does it mean when the Orz say that the Arilou are always *jumping in front*?


Oh come on, that one is obvious -_-.  The Arilou are always interfering.

A more literal interpretation would be that this is a reference to armed conflict between the Orz and the Arilou, in which the Arilou employ their ship's teleportation ability.

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7) Again, what DID happen to the Androsynth? Why did they look up information about ghosts and poltergiests on their computers when recearching dimensional fatigue?


My theory is this:  They researched and researched, popping holes into other dimensions and expanding their understanding... until suddenly they became aware of things in a way that they had never been before.

Its like having really bad cataracts in one eye all your life, then suddenly having successful cataract surgery.  Suddenly everything has a new side to it a new 'dimension' if you will.

This sudden intellectual and spiritual leap was the rough equivalent of standing straight up in a rice paddy during the Vietnam war.  The  phrase 'please shoot me' comes to mind.

This is also what happened to the unfortunate human scientist who learned too much from the Androsynth's computers.

He was spotted, then slowly ripped apart- 'eaten' by unseen forces.

Think of that old quote; 'any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic'.

If an interdimensional parasite started eating your people and exerting its will in your building, wouldn't your first thoughts be of the paranormal?


P.S.  The email I entered into the 'email' field on this page is spammed to hell.  If anyone wants to contact me, please do so on ICQ (27320261)
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Sander Scamper
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #242 on: August 01, 2004, 02:31:50 pm »


This sudden intellectual and spiritual leap was the rough equivalent of standing straight up in a rice paddy during the Vietnam war.  The  phrase 'please shoot me' comes to mind.

I laughed so hard at this i spilled my coke =/ All in all, the best short explanation i've ever heard.
Sure, you can see everything, but they can also see you.
Its like turning on a flashlight during a knife fight when your not aware of the knifee and you dont have a knife.

And it's explicitly outlined that the Arilou did NOT evolve in Quasi-Space. They moved their home planet, from normal space, into it.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #243 on: August 03, 2004, 05:27:18 pm »

Arilou are obviously meant to be far more like us than Orz; their motivations are more understandable to us (they use the language of parenthood and such), they speak our language, they appear in more familiar bodies, and they specifically tell us we and they have much in common. We may even share genes, if we take some of the language about their experiments being their "children" literally. (Splicing certain Arilou genes into human genes to give humans important traits, using those genes in a fertilized ovum, putting the ova in kidnapped women, etc.)

Arilou specifically tell us that the only commonality between them and the Orz is that they're both interdimensional travelers; otherwise they're opposed in all ways. I take this partly to mean that Arilou are an ascended "mortal race" like humans, which is why humans are (probably) going to be their successors in some way. And Orz are something entirely unlike mortal races, fingers of some grotesque extradimensional superbeing, and Arilou oppose them because they're in favor of our kind.

At least that's what the Arilou want us to think. Smiley

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Art
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #244 on: August 03, 2004, 05:31:29 pm »

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I always figured that either the Taalo had travelled to another time, or had entered a different 'phase' in the same time - ala the Flash from the old, old DC comics.  Some other people have suggested that they are endlessly replaying their final moments, hoping that someone can come, break the loop, and save them at the same time (*sequel idea*).


Just gotta say this is both one of the best sequel hooks and *the* best Taalo theory I've seen. It's an extremely plausible way to get both Ur-Quan species in on the Captain's side working with him after the war, yet it builds up all kinds of drama and tension and possible conflicting ramifications. And it creates the possibility of timetravel to the past and *seeing* the Dnyaari Slave Empire ourselves, and it creates an interesting niche for the Orz as primary antagonists (maybe the Orz have been the ones keeping the Taalo timewarp isolated from the rest of the universe for their own dark purposes).

And hey, it even makes the title "Timewarp" make sense.

Is anyone from there listening?
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #245 on: August 04, 2004, 02:47:14 pm »

I think that is a pretty darn good sequel. However, they're really gonna need to come up with a replacement Taalo anti psi rock, because the last one was locked up with the Talking Pet when the Vindicator went Boom.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #246 on: August 04, 2004, 03:11:13 pm »

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I think that is a pretty darn good sequel. However, they're really gonna need to come up with a replacement Taalo anti psi rock, because the last one was locked up with the Talking Pet when the Vindicator went Boom.


Well, but then the last intelligent Talking Pet was locked up with the Taalo anti-psi rock when the Vindicator went boom, so the problem solves itself. Smiley (The Ur-Quan are *not* stupid enough to keep using those Talking Pets after what happened. They almost certainly squished them all immediately and fell back on using Melnorme "How To Speak Human" phrasebooks to communicate.)

I never said that it'd be a good idea to bring back the *Dnyarri* just because we're bringing back the Taalo in the sequel. Let the Taalo have their own personality beyond being the Magic Anti-Dnyarri Plot Device. Cute as the little guy is, I'd rather not take him up on an offer to make a game about action, drama, gratuitous alien sex scenes, and "the glory of... ME!" He's vaporized, end of that story arc, let's find a new villain.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #247 on: August 04, 2004, 07:03:13 pm »

Well, I think the Ur-quan would just find a new creature to use, as they think they are above talking to the humans directly.....
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #248 on: August 04, 2004, 10:34:05 pm »

What, like Spathi? *pictures a Spathi with an Ur-Quan translator earpiece* "Um... Greetings, uh, rebel human slaves! You, er, you think you have won the war, but our superior *ulp* species shall still, uh, still prevail. We will fight to the... death... and though you de-de... *destroy* the whole rest of our fleet we have no-- no fear-- of your-- p-p-puny weapons... *PLEASE MASTER, I CAN'T DO THI-- OWW!* *whack* so... go on and att-attack, your att-attempts mean nothing... *sob*"

Wouldn't work too well.

Seriously, part of the Ur-Quan losing the war is gonna have to involve them getting an attitude adjustment about this whole "superior species" nonsense. The Sa-Matra was supposed to be the ultimate symbol of the whole "heirs to the Precursors" superior species thing. Losing it completely to some two-bit rebel inferior races in an area they thought was completely subjugated -- that's got to cause some sort of philosophical split.

Also the Dnyarri's status as intellectually neutered telepaths means they really were the only species that could function as translators the Ur-Quan didn't have to actually learn any other languages to use.
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Art
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #249 on: August 04, 2004, 10:46:05 pm »

Ooh, I see I was replying to the wrong post. You mean the sequel going back to the Dnyarri Slave Empire and all.

Yeah, if you actually went back in time to the Taalo homeworld as it was about to get its butt blasted, you'd probably need some sort of shield against Dnyarri interference.

Then again, you don't need a new anti-psi rock, because if you go back to the past *before* it was destroyed (to the point in time when it was originally invented) then your problem's solved again! Smiley
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #250 on: August 05, 2004, 04:02:21 am »

I think a illwrath would do the job nicely - or they could just make a automated machine.  
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #251 on: August 05, 2004, 08:00:38 pm »

Wait, were you talking PRE Taalo disappearence, or POST Taalo Disappearence?

Honestly, PLEASE don't mess with time travel. If the Captain simply takes the rock from the then taalo smouldering ruins, then he will instantly be desintigrated, as he would never have it in his past but the universes future to control to Dynarri to wipe out the Sa-Matra. *breath* Then he would lose the war and die and could not travel in time to take the rock again, so it would still be there in the future/past for him to use on the Dynarri. BUT THEN HE WOULD WIN THE WAR AND TRAVEL BACK AND TAKE THE ROCK AND START ALL OVER AGAIN ARGGHHHHH.

Migraine =(

That's interesting....Would the Kzer-Za know what it was that made them all leave, or was it like the spell 'Suggestion' from D&D?

BTW, i think that they will stop considering us inferior pretty damn quickly, especially when i take Lord_1 and Death_1 and trap them in the Delta Crateris system, guarded, with 5 Excruciators implanted into each of their brains.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2004, 08:01:02 pm by Sander » Logged

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UQM/SC2 = World Peace.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #252 on: August 06, 2004, 04:09:50 am »

The main point regarding Ur-Quan translation is that they speak in ultrasonic frequencies, while most of the other species we meet that talk seem to talk in the same aural frequencies that humans use. So other than using the telepathic Talking Pets or some other telepathic translator, to communicate with us they'll have to construct some artificial device to translate their speech, which means that in the process of doing so they'll have to learn our languages to program that device, which means contaminating themselves with knowledge of inferior cultures. So no matter what if they want to participate in the new galactic civilization they'll have to give up some of their high-and-mighty prejudices.

Re: Time-travel paradoxes. Yeah, mucking around with time travel opens up huge logic difficulties. Though your reasoning isn't necessarily sound; you can just *use* the Taalo Shield while you're in the past, do whatever you need to do to bring the Taalo to the present instead of being annihilated in the past (either way they disappear from the past so no history is changed) and leave the Shield behind you when you go, since there are no Dnyarri in the future. It'll still be there for your past self to find in the future.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #253 on: August 06, 2004, 04:22:15 am »

A couple cannon discrepencies:
Arilou "moving" their homeworld is a SC3 fantasy.
Ur-Quan with squeeky voices is an (IIRC) Interbelum fantasy.

While I'm correcting things, allow me to correct your 4D grammer, Art.  
"It'll still be there for your past self to find in the future." -> "It willen being there for your past self to having found in your past-self's future." Wink
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Sander Scamper
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #254 on: August 06, 2004, 11:00:07 am »

The coolest logical, practical use of time travel for problem solving was regarding the key/distraction/trashcan in Bill and Ted's Rxcellent Adventure, IMHO.

The 4D grammar was AWESOME =p
Oh, and if you take the Taalo device, then it will still make you disappear and be trapped in the infinite loop I mentioned.
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"Oops!" KA-BOOM!!

"Space is a dangerous place where wimps eat flaming plasma death" -The Zot....or is it the Fot?? We may never know...unless the guy in the back tells us!

UQM/SC2 = World Peace.
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