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Author Topic: Kohr-Ah Ur-Quan Homeworld?  (Read 67421 times)
Dean
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Re: Kohr-Ah Ur-Quan Homeworld?
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2005, 05:38:28 am »

Don't foget, there IS a voice-actor patch for UQM, get it at sc2.sourceforge.net.

I've just started making my own Sc2.5, which will have a new storyline and a bigger galaxy Wink.

- Dean
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Re: Kohr-Ah Ur-Quan Homeworld?
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2005, 05:42:59 am »

regarding map size:  This map is only a small section of the galaxy, which makes the galactic spin and core arrows make sense.
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Mr._Jiggles
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Re: Kohr-Ah Ur-Quan Homeworld?
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2005, 06:27:02 pm »

Dean if you can make a great mod which follows the story and is worth downloading, ill download it!
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Re: Kohr-Ah Ur-Quan Homeworld?
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2005, 09:27:21 pm »

The glitch also is, early in the game when you break through the ur quan defending the sa-matra, and you go to it, its like a homeworld. It shows a infinite amount of Kzer-Za around PLANET not the SA-MATRA
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Art
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Re: Kohr-Ah Ur-Quan Homeworld?
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2005, 10:33:24 am »

Have you never actually seen the Sa-Matra? It looks just like a world from a distance, because the Ur-Quan surrounded it with a shield made of fused asteroids to protect it and keep people from figuring out what it was. It's the stereotypical "battle station the size of a small moon". So there's no actual plot hole with the combat screen, even if there is an obvious plot manipulation to save on graphics data. Smiley

The Ur-Quan spheres of influence reflect where their battle fleets are currently stationed, not where they actually live. This is true for a lot of species, hence why the Ilwrath's homeworld is actually outside their sphere of influence -- they're an aggressive species, they only care about prowling the hunting grounds, not where they live -- and so on.

And, for what it's worth, I greatly prefer it that the SC2 starmap does not contain a homeworld and sphere of influence for every species, and many species come from places -- and have been to places -- far far away and inaccessible. It makes the world feel more open-ended, more realistic. Nothing is as constricting-feeling as the idea that the world of the story only extends to the places the designers in the game could implement.

Some corrections to Elerium's story:

The devices in SC2 are called "Excruciators". "Agonizer" is a term from Star Trek, the things they have instead of communicators in the Mirror Universe.

Kzer-Za was a Green, but he died long before the Slave Revolt -- he was a "martyr", remember? It, in fact, says a lot about the different personalities of the two subspecies that one of them named themselves after a long-dead historical figure and the other named themselves after their current leader.

"Path of Now and Forever" and "Eternal Doctrine" seem to pretty much be used interchangeably, actually. It's in one speech where the Kzer-Za use PoNaF for their own philosophy and ED for the Kohr-Ah's, and it seems to me to just be because "Eternal Doctrine" is a less exalted term. (Sort of like how someone might their own king a "Monarch and Protector of the People" and the other guy's king "The Enemy Leader".)

The Kzer-Za won a *ton* of wars before meeting up with the Alliance; they supposedly enslaved their way through half the galaxy until they reached Alliance space, which was about the antipodes to where they started. The Kohr-Ah never left the galaxy either, that we know of -- they just went in the opposite direction.

The Yuli and the Drall were genocided by the Ur-Quan on orders of the Dnyarri during the Dnyarri Slave Empire, because they were deemed too weak to live. The only species from the Milieu that was slave-shielded was the Faz (hence the admittedly weak theory that they're somehow connected with the Utwig, whose homeworld is called "Fahz"). The species that the Kohr-Ah genocided as part of the Eternal Doctrine was the Yuptar. All of those, along with the Taalo and the Mael-Num, who escaped, account for the seven "major" races of the Milieu, though we don't know what happened to whatever "minor" ones there may have been. (If they were very minor, though, it doesn't seem the Dnyarri would've gone to the trouble of keeping them alive.)
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Dean
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Re: Kohr-Ah Ur-Quan Homeworld?
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2005, 12:56:38 pm »

Thanks Mr_Jiggles, I'll try to do the game proud. I'm not actually modding, but re-writing the game from scratch - that means I can have it just the way I want but it also means a LOT more work. If you have a "wishlist" or suggestions, get them in now!

Also, I'll need people more tallented than me to do the ship drawings and (later) music. If you want to do either of those (or voice acting, or beta testing, etc.) give me a hollar.

- Dean
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Re: Kohr-Ah Ur-Quan Homeworld?
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2005, 04:18:04 pm »

Perhaps if the original Ur-Quan homeworld were located, some brown Ur-Quan might be found on it.
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Re: Kohr-Ah Ur-Quan Homeworld?
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2005, 05:00:45 pm »

Art, wasn't Kzer-Za the "founder" of the excessive-pain-kills-off-Dnyarri-power, and wasn't Kohr-Ah the leader of the Kohr-Ah at the beginning, when they were exiled by the Kzer-Za, after the first doctrinal conflict?

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When the war was over, the great Kohr-Ah rose from our ranks
and declared the Path of Now and Forever. We would cleanse the galaxy.
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Mr._Jiggles
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Re: Kohr-Ah Ur-Quan Homeworld?
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2005, 08:13:18 pm »

Yes,  but i do not think there is any more brown ur-quan. The dynarri injected all of them with genetic modifcation stuff. Turned em green or black. The dnyarri wouldn't let anybody be in between you were either worker/warrior or scientist/ leader
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Deus Siddis
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Re: Kohr-Ah Ur-Quan Homeworld?
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2005, 01:01:15 am »

There could have been some that escaped into deep underground shelters, or perhaps fleed dynarri space.
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Art
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Re: Kohr-Ah Ur-Quan Homeworld?
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2005, 02:11:24 am »

Sure, but the original Kzer-Za wasn't any kind of political leader among the Green Ur-Quan. There *were* no political leaders among the Green Ur-Quan; there were no *leaders* among the Green Ur-Quan. They were all mind-controlled slaves, and Kzer-Za was just a scientist whose mind was particularly useful to his masters.

By discovering the secret to breaking Dnyarri mind control, Kzer-Za started the Ur-Quan Slave Revolt among *all* Ur-Quan, Green and Black. It's never implied that Kzer-Za had anything to do with the Path of Now and Forever -- it couldn't have even started to be an idea among the Ur-Quan in his time, when all Ur-Quan were still slaves. The Green Ur-Quan just picked him as a figure to venerate because he was a Green and named themselves in his honor, but when the Greens became the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za the original Kzer-Za had been dead for years.

By contrast, the Black Ur-Quan were led by the general Kohr-Ah *at the time* that they named themselves after him. Kohr-Ah himself is named as the one who created their version of the PoNaF, the Eternal Doctrine.

That's a big difference. It'd be like if the Democrats decided to name themselves the "George Washington Party" and the Republicans named themselves the "George W. Bush Party". It shows a whole different attitude, at least in my opinion.

As far as surviving Brown Ur-Quan.... I mean, sure, anything's a possibility, if you want to write the sequel. But thematically I think it's a terrible idea. It's really hard to figure out how a Dnyarri, which is demonstrably able to sense and control minds over an entire planet and much of the space surrounding it, would completely miss a colony of Brown Ur-Quan living free, *especially* if they were still on the Ur-Quan homeworld. After all, the Ur-Quan were the favored slaves and the Dnyarri had what appears to be something of an obsession over them. And at the time "Dnyarri space" extended to the entire galaxy, since they inherited the Sentient Milieu's territory. Traveling outside the galaxy to, say, the Magellanic Clouds seems to be difficult but possible -- like traveling to another continent would've been in ancient times-- but it seems unlikely the Ur-Quan could have done it, since the total conquest of the Milieu is reported as taking days -- and the Ur-Quan would be the least likely species to launch an organized exodus at extremely short notice, what with their xenophobic ways and single-seat ships.
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Deus Siddis
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Re: Kohr-Ah Ur-Quan Homeworld?
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2005, 04:32:46 am »

"But thematically I think it's a terrible idea. It's really hard to figure out how a Dnyarri, which is demonstrably able to sense and control minds over an entire planet and much of the space surrounding it, would completely miss a colony of Brown Ur-Quan living free, *especially* if they were still on the Ur-Quan homeworld."

Yes, but they had friends with a device that could block out the telepathy of the dynarri. Also, since the taalo are in pretty space, who's to say they didn't bring their "friends" with them?


"single-seat ships."

Seats? I thought most Ur-quan liked to hang from the ceiling. Unless the maybe browns had a taste for luxury.  Wink
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Death 999
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Re: Kohr-Ah Ur-Quan Homeworld?
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2005, 06:53:55 pm »

On the other hand, a large number of browns could have independently set out for the Magellanic clouds -- the UQ were explorers, after all...
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Art
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Re: Kohr-Ah Ur-Quan Homeworld?
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2005, 08:40:36 am »

Well, the whole tragic and dramatic thing about the Taalo was that they didn't finish the Taalo Shield in time, right? Or they did finish it, but they weren't in time to use it before the Ur-Quan descended on them and killed them dead.

Then again, if it does become a plot point for the Taalo to be found alive in some other dimension somewhere, it adds excitement to that to have free Brown Ur-Quan living with them too. Actually that sounds pretty good -- the existence of either of those would shake the worldview of the Kzer-Za and Kohr-Ah pretty badly, but both at once would be enormous. Completely destroy their sense of historical determinism. (I still think any honest Ur-Quan sequel has to *contain* a final answer for the Ur-Quan's deep, tragic historical dilemma, even if it's not the point of the game. It's really not fair to them if the overall outcome is "We destroyed what they believed was the reason for their existence, and they eventually got over it and signed on to the League." Or even "We destroyed what they believed was the reason for their existence, and then killed them all because our ships are so awesome.")

The Brown Ur-Quan being in the Magellanic Clouds is also an interesting twist, although I have my doubts that more than a very small handful would go -- again, not much social organization, preference for wandering independently. If anyone *would* go it'd be a lone Ur-Quan explorer, of course, but I can't picture them starting any more than a tiny colony. Still be enough to wildly shake up the fleeing Ur-Quan fleets when they got there.
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Death 999
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Re: Kohr-Ah Ur-Quan Homeworld?
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2005, 04:33:23 pm »

Point of information: The Ur-Quan did not kill the Taalo dead.
To quote the makers, "The Taalo live!"

Even in game, we hear the Orz say the Taalo are playing *time games* on the surface, but we cannot see them.
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