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Author Topic: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition  (Read 12711 times)
Elvish Pillager
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Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2008, 10:16:52 pm »

I'm pretty sure that if you wanted to you could do the same with other ships with high top speeds such as the Skiff or the Eluder and they even have more effective weapons.
Not long range.
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Waylander
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Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2008, 06:26:50 am »

I'm pretty sure that if you wanted to you could do the same with other ships with high top speeds such as the Skiff or the Eluder and they even have more effective weapons.
Not long range.

True their weapons aren't long range but the Torch's fire is easy to dodge at long range and their puny little gun is next to useless so i don't think the Torch can be said to be good at long range either
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Shiver
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Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2008, 07:27:13 am »

True their weapons aren't long range but the Torch's fire is easy to dodge at long range and their puny little gun is next to useless so i don't think the Torch can be said to be good at long range either

The pipgun is unlikely to land a hit on Arilou, but most mid-speed and slow ships can be taken apart given a little persistence.
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Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2008, 07:37:47 pm »

The pipgun is unlikely to land a hit on Arilou, but most mid-speed and slow ships can be taken apart given a little persistence.

I was comparing the Torch's long range weaponry with that of the other ships that can quite easily flee such as the Eluder and the Skiff. I was just saying that the Torch's weaponry is not really long range because it is so ineffectual. The flames can simply be steered around (at long range) and the gun is pretty easy to avoid.
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Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2008, 09:11:51 pm »

Usually, I'm totally against Shiver's ideas, but I actually agree with him. The reason the Torch is such a boring fight is because the Mark 6 blaster is so weak, yet the Torch can easily stay away from most enemy fire given the right skill. The weapon is long range, and the problem with the Torch is most players will use the Mark 6 blaster at long range. They miss much of the time and even when it hits, it does little damage. However, most ships cannot catch up with the Torch very easily, so it also takes forever for the Torch to take damage. The fact that the Torch has ineffective, long range weaponry is what gets us into these long, boring stalemates.
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Niles
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Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2008, 10:33:24 pm »

* Reducing the primary weapon range
* Making the flames inherit a portion of the speed
* Reducing flame lifespan
would make for more action. Not sure if the AI could be taught to handle the flames efficiently though.

Personally, I would probably prefer my "rhino" suggestion and given how the Thraddash seems to charge in straight at me sometimes (especially when slimed well, VUX-style), the AI might be able to handle that change well enough.
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Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2008, 11:02:21 pm »

It doesn't matter if the AI can't handle it, it just matters if it's more fun to play. The AI doesn't handle the original very well, anyways.
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Ph
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Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2008, 04:42:34 am »

Well, since this mod's entire purpose is netplay, I don't think the AI really matters here.  But the advantage some of the simpler changes have over the ramming idea is that they can be implemented pretty quickly (someone already did this earlier in the thread; unfortunately I have no idea what to do with the download to make it work).

I still like the zero-damage, knockback-based primary idea better than the moving flames.  But there really are quite a lot of different designs that have been posted in this thread, and I don't know if people are planning to test all of them or if anything has already been decided upon or what.
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Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2008, 06:16:51 am »

Jaychant I see what you mean.

Niles I think the Rhino idea is good but I honestly can't see it being an effective attack tactic against any kinds of fast turning ship but it does alleviate the whole pathetic weapons point so yeah. Can you imagine trying to rhino a Jugger or an Ugmah?
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Valaggar Redux
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Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2008, 07:58:51 pm »

Here is an ugly amateurish hack of UQM that implements Niles' design. Here is the modified ship code file (if you're not on Windows, or want to laugh at my amateurish coding).

Put the executable in the folder with your UQM executable, and use it to run UQM.

Put the zip file wherever your addon pack is (it's not needed, but it'll make the Thraddash's primary bigger -- it's really hard to hit the enemy ship with the usual size). Be sure to make a shortcut to the modded executable where you tell it to use the addon pack (add [ --addon uqmremix], WITHOUT the brackets, after the quotation marks in the Target field, in the Properties dialog for the shortcut file; use "uqmremix" only if the addon is in content\packages\addons\uqmremix, otherwise use the actual name of the folder where the addon is, e.g. "horns" if it's in content\packages\addons\horns).

(Note that I also made the Torch to have automatic shielding - if the Torch is hit, it automatically expends half the maximum battery to prevent taking damage. Of course, it only does this if it has that much energy. Why did I do this? It just couldn't get near enough to the enemy.)
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Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2008, 05:26:45 pm »

I downloaded and tried out Valaggar's hack. I was actually hoping to see Ph's big slow missile ship instead of NIles' vague suggestion, but here's what he did: The main weapon is now a large projectile that remains stationary in front of the Torch as long as you hold down the button. It looks like a Rhino horn. Very appropriate. The ship kind of sucks in its present form, though. I know 10 point ships are supposed to suck and Ilwrath is bad too, but this ship seems like sort of an Ilwrath lite. Ilwrath has enough crew to survive a Shofixti glory device or ZFP tongue attack, while this mod Thraddash really can't.

Quote from: Valaggar
Note that I also made the Torch to have automatic shielding - if the Torch is hit, it automatically expends half the maximum battery to prevent taking damage. Of course, it only does this if it has that much energy. Why did I do this? It just couldn't get near enough to the enemy.

That's a weird tweak and I don't really care for it. It's good for absorbing hits from the Druuge, while generally sucking at protecting the Thraddash from more common threats. It also messes up your battery bad when you're trying to ram into a Spathi or Zoq-Fot-Pik or anything really.

It's a start, anyway. Glad to see someone try to alter the ship.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2008, 05:40:38 pm by Shiver » Logged
Valaggar Redux
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Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2008, 09:04:34 pm »

Here is a mod that implements Ph's design. Here is the modified ship code file.

Ph's Torch (or at least my version thereof):

Quote
Speed: slower than VUX
Acceleration: excellent (relative to the maximum speed)
Turning rate:  poor to moderate
Mass:  4
Crew:  24
Battery:  24
Energy regain:  Moderate

Primary (4 batt): Four missiles launched simultaneously from the diagonal corners of the ship (spaced at 90 degree intervals). These missiles have only 1 hp each, and deal 2 damage. They also knock back the enemy ship, a-la-Druuge; the knockback is, unlike Druuge, bigger for ships of smaller mass.
(Damage:  2
Speed:  very fast, accelerate
Range:  great
Homing: moderate, not enough for you to ever be hit by more than two from the same launch
Knockback: enough to keep small ships at a distance from you, but not enough to have much of an effect on a large ship.
Rate of fire:  moderate
Energy usage:  4)

Secondary (18 batt): Forward-firing collection of laser beams, with longer range than the VUX laser. Each beam deals 1 damage (there are 9 beams total). Nigh useless (save for maybe against Utwig), must be improved. Probably I should stick to something closer to Ph's original proposal (however, in order to do this, I must figure out how to make wide laser beams, and not just collections of lasers).

All in all, this ship really sucks (should probably cost less than 10 points), which isn't necessarily a bad thing, given that it's good against Syreen (I hope; I tested only against the Awesome AI and against myself). It's kind of boring to play as, though.

-------------

Here is a slightly updated version of Niles' Torch. It doesn't have automatic shielding and has 14 crew. Here is the modified source code file, note that you'll have to download the other file too because it's the only one containing the add-on.
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Shiver
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Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
« Reply #42 on: June 03, 2008, 10:36:57 pm »

Critique #2:

The four corner missiles don't track nearly well enough. A Zoq-Fot-Pik or Umgah could easily lay waste to this ship in PVP. Syreen would also win here. It's just too easy to sneak right in close without being hit. The sound effect isn't appropriate for a volley of missiles. Switch in the Mmrnhrm weapon sound instead?

The beam is crap, but you already knew that. The coverage needs to be a lot better for one thing. The damage may or may not need improvement. I like that you made the energy cost of the weapon prohibitively expensive so that it isn't really viable for blocking incoming projectiles.
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Ph
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Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2008, 02:29:01 am »

Probably I should stick to something closer to Ph's original proposal (however, in order to do this, I must figure out how to make wide laser beams, and not just collections of lasers).

Not necessarily.  The primary doesn't really have much of an impact on whether or not the ship counters Syreen, so it might as well be something straightforward like the Spathi's main or the Stinger's spray cannon.  I'm not sure why I made the wide beam a part of the ship in the first place (just trying to make it unique, I guess).

Also, I haven't actually played this, because I have no idea how to play mods.  And does it make a difference that I'm using a Mac?
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Re: Modifying Star Control Ships! - Thraddash Edition
« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2008, 04:22:17 pm »

Here's a new version, hopefully a better one.
(Hold primary to keep the missiles going; use left/right to steer the missiles; use special to make them explode, dealing their damage and knockback to ships within a certain distance. Special consumes an additional 4 batt -- no matter whether you have 1, 2, 3 or 4 missiles)
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