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Author Topic: Precursor Battleship wisdom by Valaggar Redux  (Read 17767 times)
Shiver
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Re: you guys are missing the point
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2007, 03:42:07 pm »

furthermore,

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Re: you guys are missing the point
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2007, 03:47:49 pm »

It could just be considered the first line of defense for the Sa-Matra by the Ur-Quan. They got an armada of ships surrounding them before you distract it. The shield generators might only be there to bounce back the occasional asteroid.

Anyhow, Guesst is right about it all being done before. The Precursors might have been struck by a plague and forced to ascend (oooh that sounds familiar). Their technology might look different while it was built by the same race, because one was built when they were at the pinnacle of their technological development, while the other stuff was built earlier, before they were attacked by the Wrait... errr Etern1... errr Shado... oh well you get my point.
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Re: you guys are missing the point
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2007, 04:08:03 pm »

You *do* realize that this was four years ago, and half of the people who posted on it then probably aren't around anymore, right?
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Valaggar
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Re: you guys are missing the point
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2007, 04:32:17 pm »

You *do* realize that this was four years ago, and half of the people who posted on it then probably aren't around anymore, right?
Then the new ones reply. Makes no point to have two threads on the same subject.

furthermore,


Furthermore what?
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Death 999
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Re: you guys are missing the point
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2007, 10:15:48 pm »

You know what, I figured it out. The shields aren't to protect the Sa-Matra from the fleet, they're to protect the fleet from the Sa-Matra!

The Sa-Matra does not only have weapons of tremendous power, it also has weapons of great subtlety. Unless encased in this shell, whoever is at the helm could invisibly turn the tide of the battle.

Or at least, the Kohr-Ah think so. So into the shield it goes, and the shield generators go on the outside.

How does that sound?
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guesst
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Re: you guys are missing the point
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2007, 02:15:06 am »

Anyhow, Guesst is right about it all being done before...
Yeah, that's right. Cuz when I said...

...wait a minute. What are you talking about. I haven't said but these words on this thread even four years abot when it had it's hayday.

Or am I missing the point?
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Re: you guys are missing the point
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2007, 03:44:32 am »

Holy resurrected ancient "it's all been said" threads Batman...

Wow, What the hell was I thinking. And Look how crappy I wrote. What the hell! I tried to come across with a worth while point but I seemed to have been distracted by my own thought process...OUHH LOOK...SHINY THINGS.

....UMM...What was the point again?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 05:59:37 am by DEFIANT » Logged
Lukipela
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Re: you guys are missing the point
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2007, 10:11:16 am »

The protection was placed there just to deter Kohr-Ah or Kzer-Za combatants in the Doctrinal Conflict to cheat by using the Sa-Matra, and it was the least protection required for that - the Ur-Quan philosophy seems to be "It is a weakness to use any more effort than required to do your job" - see how they used the Sa-Matra only in the end of the War, when it was clear that it was necessary.

I dunno, the Ur-Quan seem pretty strict with honour and such things. Do you really think they need protection in case someone just decides "Oh hay I'm gonna finish the conflict by cheating because that's totally in line with my strict  code of honour!" I doubt any kohr-Ah "Sa-Matra-jackers" would be very well recieved by the Primat. The guarding fleet seems ceremonial, more than anything else, whereas the shield might well just be a Standby mode thing. We don't know how long it takes to power up that baby.
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Re: you guys are missing the point
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2007, 07:25:58 pm »

"Sa-Matra-jackers"

LoL...that's just too funny!  That’s a good idea for a comedy skit, come to think of it. Have the Reservoir Dogs play the Sa-Matra-jackers. Mr Pink and Mr Blonde get into an argument over who should be on hostage detail. Brilliant!
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Re: you guys are missing the point
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2007, 11:16:49 pm »

You know what, I figured it out. The shields aren't to protect the Sa-Matra from the fleet, they're to protect the fleet from the Sa-Matra!

The Sa-Matra does not only have weapons of tremendous power, it also has weapons of great subtlety. Unless encased in this shell, whoever is at the helm could invisibly turn the tide of the battle.

Or at least, the Kohr-Ah think so. So into the shield it goes, and the shield generators go on the outside.

How does that sound?

That does make sense. That would also be the reason why the Sa-Matra does not use its primary weapons to defend itself and instead lauches those 'drones' to attack.
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Re: you guys are missing the point
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2007, 11:27:24 pm »

Holy resurrected ancient "it's all been said" threads Batman...

Wow, What the hell was I thinking. And Look how crappy I wrote. What the hell! I tried to come across with a worth while point but I seemed to have been distracted by my own thought process...
..and yet still spuring discussion among the young ones. All we cumudgons have to do is sit back and snigger.
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Re: you guys are missing the point
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2007, 05:53:59 pm »

Holy resurrected ancient "it's all been said" threads Batman...

Wow, What the hell was I thinking. And Look how crappy I wrote. What the hell! I tried to come across with a worth while point but I seemed to have been distracted by my own thought process...
..and yet still spuring discussion among the young ones. All we cumudgons have to do is sit back and snigger.
Well in that case let grab my lawn chair and a couple of cold ones...this ought to be entertaining. Grin
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Lukipela
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Re: you guys are missing the point
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2007, 12:53:12 am »

Holy resurrected ancient "it's all been said" threads Batman...

Wow, What the hell was I thinking. And Look how crappy I wrote. What the hell! I tried to come across with a worth while point but I seemed to have been distracted by my own thought process...
..and yet still spuring discussion among the young ones. All we cumudgons have to do is sit back and snigger.

Cheers. I feel young and rejuvenated ya old fossil.
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Re: you guys are missing the point
« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2007, 01:18:01 am »

Samatra and the Preccie vessel haven't necessarily originally been developed as battle platforms. The game hints every now and then that the shaggy ones used the ships for space mining. Maybe Sa-matra was there for conveniently exploding moons or asteroids of certain size? If the project is very large, then use the Preccie bomb instead - with the cost of a much rougher result. The Flagship is probably just some kind of crew transportation vessel or similar. Maybe it's used for harvesting what Sa-Matra and Preccie bombs have produced? Remember that most of its weapons come from the Mael Num descendants. Why would the Preccies have built such a puny weapon for their ship if it was built for fighting?
Sa-Matra is also not necessarily developed by the Preccies, but it might be a relic from some race that lived hundreds of thousands of years before the Preccies and were a lot larger than the tiny shaggety-shag-shags.

And don't forget Mark II, dudes! That's Preccie too, isn't it?
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Valaggar Redux
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Re: you guys are missing the point
« Reply #44 on: December 20, 2007, 10:11:04 am »

Actually the Sa-Matra was a Precursor Battleship. From the Melnorme:
The civil war between the Green Ur-Quan, the followers of Kzer-Za
and their opponents, the death-dealing Kohr-Ah, lasted for decades.
It is likely that they would have annihilated each other
were it not for a chance discovery by a Kzer-Za -- a Precursor Battleship!
The vessel was huge, many times the size of the Ur-Quan's vessels.
The Precursor ship sliced through the Kohr-Ah forces in days -- the Kohr-Ah were defeated.
However in their victory, the Kzer-Za were humble
they realized that there was a chance that they were wrong, and the Kohr-Ah were right.
Instead of destroying the Kohr-Ah, the Kzer-Za let them go
directing them to make their way through the stars, traveling against the spin of the galaxy.
The Kzer-Za would travel in the opposite direction
and when the two Ur-Quan forces met, they would fight again in a ritual combat
with the Precursor Battleship given to the winner.


The Flagship is a Precursor tug. The Mark II is another Precursor Battleship. From the 1998 IRC chat with TFB:
<_Stilgar> Fwiffo- what WAS the Mark II?
<Fwiffo> The Mark II was a precursor cruiser as opposed to a precursor tug which is what you guys flew.


Possible reasons for which the Sa-Matra didn't use its primary weapons (annihilation toroids and all that):
1. It is part of the ritual of the Doctrinal Conflict (sort of like wrapping a present) to temporarily deactivate the Sa-Matra (the Great Trophy).
2. Its primary weapons need some time to charge (the Flagship took it by surprise). Though you can stay in the Delta Crateris system for how long you wish, and the Talking Pet only tells you "not to leave the star system", not "hurry, before the Sa-Matra fires!". Kinda unlikely, this explanation is.
3. Firing the Sa-Matra requires a lot of energy. Completely unlikely, as, in the final moments of the Battle of the Sa-Matra, the Ur-Quan could have fired it anyway, as it's better to lose some energy than to lose the Sa-Matra. Or maybe the Sa-Matra can't shoot something so close to it? Maybe the Ur-Quan thought, at first, "Our ships can finish this human renegade easily, let's save some enegy!", and then the Flagship got too close for the Sa-Matra to be able to hit it anyway?

No, really, all these apparent inconsistencies/sacrifices for the sake of gameplay can be easily explained.
Why aren't the shield generators on the outside? Possible reasons:
1. Shield generators must be "encrusted" in the shield, which actually runs through the asteroid shell as well (the proposal of creativename, but slightly modified) - not likely. They could've kept the generators encased within the asteroid shell anyway.
2. It is demeaning for the Ur-Quan to use any more force than required to finish one's job (proposed by me) - kinda far-fetched, though it works. After all, the Ur-Quan didn't use the Sa-Matra during the Ur-Quan Slave War until after they knew they had no other way to win in time for the Kohr-Ah's arrival.
3. The generators are there because the Kohr-Ah believe that the Sa-Matra also has weapons of great subtlety, with which it could turn the tide of battle; therefore, the shield actually protects the fleet from the Sa-Matra, not the other way around (proposed by Death 999) - far-fetched again, though it also works. However, it doesn't explain why, after winning the Doctrinal Conflict, the Kohr-Ah don't take the Sa-Matra with them (unlike explanation 2., which does explain this).
4. The generators are there because we wouldn't have been able to win the game otherwise. Heh heh. Everybody knows that this is the correct out-of-universe explanation.

And why the Precursors had three different designs has also been masterfully explained by Lukipela. The Mark II and the Sa-Matra are from different time periods. I might add that the Flagship was just a tug, a maintenance ship (with rudimentary, functional-but-ugly aesthetics); I guess that every species has a warship design and at least one support ship design (as well as civilian ship designs). After all, the Earthlings do have support ships. Hayes:
At the start of the war, here on Earth we were working like crazy
churning out hundreds of heavy Cruisers and smaller support vehicles.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2007, 10:15:59 am by Valaggar Redux » Logged
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