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Author Topic: Ship prices in melee.  (Read 9361 times)
Zworag
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Ship prices in melee.
« on: February 06, 2004, 02:23:20 am »

Some ridiculously high/low prices always bothered me. I'm not saying that the prices should be changed, just trying to start discussion. Against computers this is a completely different story, though. here's my views:

Androsynth: Much better than a 15, if you're a good pilot.
Arilou: Good against a few ships, but too few crew to be worth 16.
Chenjesu: Overpriced, slow and almost useless special weapon. The main weapon is very good for long range though.
Chmmr: Would be worth a 30, but there are too many counter ships.
Druuge: If you're skilled pilot, the ship is well worth its value. Also, designed to kill Chhmrs.
Earthling: Good against some ships and helpless against the others. It's a good buy though.
Ilwrath: Too slow, and the cloaking device is too hard to use, not a good pick.
Kohr-Ah: Probably the best ship in the game. When used well, the fire shield can destroy almost anything and there aren't many good counter ships.
Melnorme: Very good ship if you're skilled with long range weapons.
Mmrnmhrm: I think it's a good overall ship and most importantly can take care of Traddash.
Mycon: Good against slow ships, but horrible against anything fast. Not worth its cost.
Orz: A decent ship, but main weapon is poor and the ship can be wasted with a Guardian. Good against Chmmr, though.
Pkunk: Use them if you feel lucky, but they're still probably not worth a 20.
Shofixti: Well, it costs only 5...
Slylandro: Too weak and too expensive.
Spathi: Isn't this vessel banned in human vs. human fights? It does nothing more than annoy both players, because the only good tactic is to run away - and missiles won't hit anything else than a dumb computer.
Supox: Has some potential, but too vulnerable - you usually can't afford one mistake.
Syreen: Probably an underestimated ship. If you happen to fight near the planet, you can try to drain other's crew and watch the planet consume it.
Traddash: A great, but rather annoying ship. Counters Utwig and many other ships, and costs only 10.
Umgah: Don't buy it unless you can use it really well.
Ur-Quan: Fighters are useless against most ships, and cannon is hard to hit with. Overpriced ship.
Utwig: Banned, but can be beaten by Traddash and Melnorme (and Chenjesu?) so its only use is to destroy the large ships (Kohr-Ah most importantly) and die.
VUX: Too slow to be any good.
Yehat: One of few ships that can beat a Kohr-Ah. Not many other uses, though.
Zoqfot: I use it only to kill Earth cruisers.

The reason why I don't like to play against computer is its stupidness. Why did the Shofixti ever need Blaze of glory when *one* Shofixti ship can beat an Ur-Quan captained by an awesome computer? (yes, the Ur-Quan won't stop sending fighters until they have only like 8 crew left). Why don't computer ships even try to avoid Torch's afterburner or Guardian's bubbles?
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Deep-Jiffa
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Re: Ship prices in melee.
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2004, 02:32:33 am »

Well, the value in melee doesn't represent the strenght of the ship. It represent the RU it costs to build devided by 1000. But usally with strenght you need more matiriel, or expensive matiriel.
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Re: Ship prices in melee.
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2004, 04:06:04 am »

I made a post like this a while back. I think Zworag is way too frigging picky, but I agree with him on a few things. In particular, the Mycon Podship should go down a few points while the Androsynth Guardian needs to be pricier.
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Re: Ship prices in melee.
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2004, 03:56:35 pm »

I'm pretty sure I'd flat out refuse to play with anybody who banned the Jugger but not the Marauder.  Banning Juggers makes Marauders too valuable, as it removes the single best countership for them.


The only one I really think is totally out of whack is the Guardian, which really is massively underpriced.  It's very dangerous, and even it's counterships tend not to come away clean.  The mycon I'm not sure of.  It can really wail on a select few ships, and it can regenerate, but it does get shredded by it's counters pretty badly.
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Re: Ship prices in melee.
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2004, 07:25:07 pm »

Eluders and Blades can take on a marauder. Then again, I've never played a really pro marauder pilot.
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Re: Ship prices in melee.
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2004, 07:55:19 pm »

Comment time!

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Chenjesu: Overpriced, slow and almost useless special weapon. The main weapon is very good for long range though.


It is slow, and slow to turn. However, the special weapon is VERY useful against some ships. Like, it's very fun to be nose-to-nose with a Kohr-Ah or Ur-Quan if it has zero battery all the time. Nice against Druuge and Utwig. Also note that at close range this ship can dish out the damage very quickly.

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Chmmr: Would be worth a 30, but there are too many counter ships.


Most of the counters mainly work on naive enemies. A Thraddash can be taken out by camping and judicious use of the tractor beam.

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Kohr-Ah: Probably the best ship in the game. When used well, the fire shield can destroy almost anything and there aren't many good counter ships.


Agreed. Even the ships that normally do well against this can be defeated by a good strong gravity whip and well-applied FRIED or backwards-dropped discs. It reduces their margin for error, you see.

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Mmrnmhrm: I think it's a good overall ship and most importantly can take care of Traddash.


So can Cruisers, and they're much cheaper.

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Orz: A decent ship, but main weapon is poor and the ship can be wasted with a Guardian. Good against Chmmr, though.


A fresh Orz can kill nearly any slow ship with a stream of marines. Especially effective against Kohr-Ah (be sure to send them in a straight line). Remember to take your finger off the special key so you can turn.

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Pkunk: Use them if you feel lucky, but they're still probably not worth a 20.


AGREED. Except that the Computer is abusively powerful with this ship. In-freaking-sane.

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Traddash: A great, but rather annoying ship. Counters Utwig and many other ships, and costs only 10.


Counters COMPUTER Utwig...


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Ur-Quan: Fighters are useless against most ships, and cannon is hard to hit with. Overpriced ship.


Fighters can be used against a lot more ships than you might think. For example, if you get fighters SPREAD OUT over a distance, they provide a much deadlier net. Sending out one pair can drain an Utwig in preparation for a nose-to-nose confrontation. Also, if your enemy is committed to crossing your line of fire, the battery has room for several shots...


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VUX: Too slow to be any good.


Au contraire. Limpets will keep enemies far enough back to find the planet. Gravity whip, then limpet away. You can kill lots of things. If you lose, there's a good chance you'll limpet them, making them lose next time.

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Yehat: One of few ships that can beat a Kohr-Ah. Not many other uses, though.


Really? It's excellent against any ship which it can overtake. The pulse cannon is extremely powerful and the battery regeneration is solid. Then there's the shield. You may not have the computer's reflexes, but the shield is still a very good thing.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2004, 07:55:36 pm by Death_999 » Logged
Zworag
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Re: Ship prices in melee.
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2004, 08:13:53 pm »

Yes, Marauder is one of the best ships, but there are a few good ships against it. Yehat is even cheaper counter ship than an Utwig. A good Supox pilot can beat Marauder, but the problem is that you can't afford any mistakes. And ever tried Chenjesu? The ships are very similar - Chenjesu just has to avoid the flames. I don't believe an Eluder can harm a Marauder too much.

There are many opinions about Mycon. My opinion is that it's good against new players, but most veterans know how to play effectively against it.
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Re: Ship prices in melee.
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2004, 08:17:22 pm »

Did I hear you say that a Spathi ship can not hurt a Marauder that much!!!?  I disagree completely. Yes, it takes some practice - but I can take one spathi ship and kill about 5 butal marauders on average. 10 if I am lucky.  

My thoughts about eh mycon are that it is way to easy to kill if you have a fast ship to steer the plasmoids back to the mycon ship.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2004, 08:17:33 pm by FalconMWC » Logged
Zworag
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Re: Ship prices in melee.
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2004, 08:23:16 pm »

Death_999:

I don't think an Orz could defeat a Marauder. Surely, a few troopers might get in, but Marauder has enough crew to survive it. Kohr-Ah is only slightly slower than troopers and can shoot them down with the main weapon rather easily.

I'm positive a Traddash can beat Utwig no matter how you use the Jugger. Jugger has no chance to gain any battery, because Traddash main weapon does only 1 damage - still it goes through Utwig's ammo pretty often. Just make sure Utwig won't get any batteries from afterburners, keep the distance and snipe. I'd say a Traddash/Cruiser fight is very even. Traddash is agile enough to avoid missiles, and can kill the cruiser from distance. But then again, cruiser only needs to hit twice to win.

I have changed my mind about Yehat. I played Melee a few times today, and defeated many ships with correct use of shield.
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Zworag
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Re: Ship prices in melee.
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2004, 08:25:06 pm »

Not talking about human vs. computer fights. Yes I know you can defeat all the Ur-Quans and Kohr-Ahs in game with Fwiffo, but you can abuse the flawed computer AI many other ways too.
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Re: Ship prices in melee.
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2004, 09:54:42 pm »

the nemasis can kill a marauder. Just dont use marines, and focus on dodging and firing
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Dworag
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Re: Ship prices in melee.
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2004, 11:27:29 pm »

There's no pilot who can kill a Marauder like that. It's hard enough to avoid the killers floating in the space, but you'd have to hit with the main weapon too. It's hard enough with a Blade, and many times harder with a Nemesis.
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Re: Ship prices in melee.
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2004, 12:44:02 am »

Dworag must be the only other person in here who plays against other hunams. Tongue
Well, I'ma do like D999 did and run my mouth about what his list says. It'll probably sound the same, but hey, I like to type.

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Androsynth: Much better than a 15, if you're a good pilot.

My ship, if everyone already didn't know. It's cost is what it is due to the lack of compitent flyers. Personally, I can brutalize just about anything with it, so I'd crank it up to 20 or so. Grin

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Arilou: Good against a few ships, but too few crew to be worth 16.

A "few"? Inertialess drive makes it invaluable against both large and small ships. Sit next to the planet vs. larger craft, and get into a chase with the smaller ones (not Shofixti, btw Tongue). When they come charging at you, angle off and stop. They go zinging by, allowing you to get medieval with your zapper.

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Chenjesu: Overpriced, slow and almost useless special weapon. The main weapon is very good for long range though.

I consdier the Broodhome more like a piece of space artillery than a direct combat ship. It's DOGI's reaffirm this. If the enemy can't shoot due to my 4 DOGI's drinking it's battery like wine, what's to worry? I think the cost is fine.

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Chmmr: Would be worth a 30, but there are too many counter ships.

Playing against hunams, I'd have to say the price should crank UP to about 35-40. Most people that see a Chmmr try to get the hell away ASAP, unless they really know what they're doing.

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Druuge: If you're skilled pilot, the ship is well worth its value. Also, designed to kill Chhmrs.

Agreed. Practice makes good snipers.

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Earthling: Good against some ships and helpless against the others. It's a good buy though.

Rooting for the home team, I'd have to agree again. Things like a Jugger cut the Crusier in half, while ships like the Avenger and the Drone are nuke fodder. I guess that isn't saying much though, is it?  Sad

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Ilwrath: Too slow, and the cloaking device is too hard to use, not a good pick.

Actually, I find it fun unnerving my opponents that don't watch for the winking stars. The screen starts to zoom in on them and they panic. Mwah. Keep it where it is.

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Kohr-Ah: Probably the best ship in the game. When used well, the fire shield can destroy almost anything and there aren't many good counter ships.

Overrated. It should be worth more due to it's uber nature, but there are a few good ships that can tear it up with minimal losses (Spathi, Mmrnmhrm).

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Melnorme: Very good ship if you're skilled with long range weapons.

Yep. Keep the price about where it is, maybe a little higher due to the lasting effects of the Screwer-Upper.

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Mmrnmhrm: I think it's a good overall ship and most importantly can take care of Thraddash.

I had to add the "h" to Thraddash. Luki is guilty of this crime too, so don't feel alone. Tongue The Mmrnmhrm is probably my second best ship, tied with the Probe.

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Mycon: Good against slow ships, but horrible against anything fast. Not worth its cost.

Another piece of space artillery. It gets it's cost, probably, from it's ability to regenerate due to the fact that it's gonna have to soak up plenty of it's own Plasmoids. Tongue

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Orz: A decent ship, but main weapon is poor and the ship can be wasted with a Guardian. Good against Chmmr, though.

3 batt converts into 3 damage. I'd say that's decent. What this ship needs is a larger battery. As for Guardians, yes. I OWN the Orz with my Guardian. The cost is a little steep, I think, but probably because of the nifty lil' Marines.

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Pkunk: Use them if you feel lucky, but they're still probably not worth a 20.

Agreed.

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Shofixti: Well, it costs only 5...

A great terror ship. It's bombing power should make it cost about 10, but due to low crew size and battery, I guess, it's 5.

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Slylandro: Too weak and too expensive.

Too general of a statement. This is one of those ships that no one ever bothers to even begin to try to fly, just because it's stereotyped as a piece of crap. I can go through just about any ship with a Probe and come out victorious. It's all about timing, really. It's price is fine for it's abilities, once you get them downpat. Read this: http://uqm.stack.nl/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Gendiscuss;action=display;num=1062686746 for my (and other's) looks at how to use ships effectively. Costwise? Keep it where it is, just because most don't know it's secrets. *evil laugh*

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Spathi: Isn't this vessel banned in human vs. human fights? It does nothing more than annoy both players, because the only good tactic is to run away - and missiles won't hit anything else than a dumb computer.

Eh, you can't "ban" a ship from a fight: It's in the game for a reason; to be used. That, and who says you have to use the
BUTT to destroy people? That pea-shooter can be lethal. Costwise? It's good, maybe a little higher.

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Supox: Has some potential, but too vulnerable - you usually can't afford one mistake.

People usually try to dance too much and wind up scrap metal. If you use this ship without it's dancing abilities, it's still quite handy in a fight. It's cost is OK.

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Syreen: Probably an underestimated ship. If you happen to fight near the planet, you can try to drain other's crew and watch the planet consume it.

Syreen vs. Mycon = Recruitment drive. This ship rocks, but gets smoked when fighting anyone that has decent long range abilities (or the Probe due to inorganic "crew"). Should cost more.

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Thraddash: A great, but rather annoying ship. Counters Utwig and many other ships, and costs only 10.

The Thradds are great for pissing people off, and better for making them engage in evasive manuvers. Cutting people off at the planet with a large burst of flame makes for some colorful metaphors directed in your direction.  Wink

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Umgah: Don't buy it unless you can use it really well.

Again, read the link for some fun things to do with the Umgah. It's cost is probably a little too low, in fact.

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Ur-Quan: Fighters are useless against most ships, and cannon is hard to hit with. Overpriced ship.

Fighters don't necessarily have to be "fighters". Mostly, I use them to hound people into the Dread itself, or the planet.

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Utwig: Banned, but can be beaten by Thraddash and Melnorme (and Chenjesu?) so its only use is to destroy the large ships (Kohr-Ah most importantly) and die.

Again, no banning allowed. You probably don't like it because it can slap up your Marauder with relative ease. Tongue It's cost is right about where it should be, and this ship has tons of staying power.

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VUX: Too slow to be any good.

The point of the Intruder isn't to catch your enemy right away, it's to slow them down to your speed so that you can chew them up with impunity. They're arrogant like that. Tongue

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Yehat: One of few ships that can beat a Kohr-Ah. Not many other uses, though.

DJ, I'm amazed you haven't ripped him in half for this remark yet. The Yehat are actually underpriced. They don't have any "special" special opponents, but that's because they kick ass in general. Like the Probe, it's all about timing.

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Zoqfot: I use it only to kill Earth cruisers.

This ship is great for smoking any slowships. Dreads, Maulers, Avengers, Podships...all fall to the Gatling Cannon eventually. Just don't get caught by too much fire, as 10 crew ain't much. Cost? Probably too low.

There. I spoke my mind. Man, I need to learn how to make URLs into single words instead of huuuge long strings, cus that's just ugly.
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Re: Ship prices in melee.
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2004, 10:10:47 pm »

to make it short:

No ship should ever be banned from melee. That's like saying "f**k you Fred and Paul, this sucks" Every ship can be destroyed with a right ship and a skillful captain.
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Re: Ship prices in melee.
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2004, 12:07:08 am »

I wasn't here for a while but I have one comment:(Here it comes Necro..):
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!?! THE TERMINATOR IS THE BEST SHIP EVER! IT CAN BEAT EVERY SINGLE SHIP, HUMAN OR COMPUTER!

Now I go back to relax...
« Last Edit: February 08, 2004, 04:44:27 am by Deep_Jiffa » Logged

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