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Author Topic: Hillary bashing  (Read 15427 times)
Shiver
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Re: Hillary bashing
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2008, 09:23:41 am »

Take a look at this little widget: http://www.slate.com/features/delegatecounter/

The calculator lets you see what the delegate count is depending on how the future states turn out. I gave Pennsylvania to Clinton by 70%, then every over state that has not already voted by 55% and she still lost. The race is already done, people just don't know it. This means we all get to listen to a few more months of manufactured drama, courtesy of the US media.
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Lukipela
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Re: Hillary bashing
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2008, 04:25:49 pm »

That is interesting. What about the super delegates though? I don't pretend to understand your system, but couldn't they still vote for Hillary no matter what? I mean, she's the one with all the connections.
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Shiver
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Re: Hillary bashing
« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2008, 04:41:17 pm »

That is interesting. What about the super delegates though? I don't pretend to understand your system, but couldn't they still vote for Hillary no matter what? I mean, she's the one with all the connections.

The superdelegates are already counted in that little slider score thingy. They broke for Hillary Clinton by almost a 2:1 ratio. Doesn't matter now.
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Lukipela
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Re: Hillary bashing
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2008, 05:22:26 pm »

I must be misunderstanding the reader thingy then. I set it to your conditions and it said

"Obama has the pledged delegate lead, but will need at least 404 superdelegates to reach 2,025."

Doesn't that mean that if Clinton hoards enough super delegates, Obama still won't win?
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Shiver
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Re: Hillary bashing
« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2008, 05:35:41 pm »

I'm not sure why they put that bit down there because it's so misleading. Essentially, neither democratic candidate is going to hit the number (2025) required to win by default. The highest scoring candidate will be declared the nominee for President later.
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Lukipela
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Re: Hillary bashing
« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2008, 05:49:02 pm »

I'm not sure why they put that bit down there because it's so misleading. Essentially, neither democratic candidate is going to hit the number (2025) required to win by default. The highest scoring candidate will be declared the nominee for President later.

And is this sure? There's no chance some sort of political greasing of the wheels could encourage the super delegates to vote for the other person?
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Shiver
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Re: Hillary bashing
« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2008, 06:07:47 pm »

And is this sure? There's no chance some sort of political greasing of the wheels could encourage the super delegates to vote for the other person?

Yes, super delegates can switch. Even pledged delegates can switch. They almost never do this. A delegate switching sides pisses people off. 100 delegates switching sides so that a leading candidate drops to 2nd place would cause a shitstorm. That defies democracy.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 06:09:36 pm by Shiver » Logged
Lukipela
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Re: Hillary bashing
« Reply #52 on: March 08, 2008, 06:04:03 pm »

Yes, super delegates can switch. Even pledged delegates can switch. They almost never do this. A delegate switching sides pisses people off. 100 delegates switching sides so that a leading candidate drops to 2nd place would cause a shitstorm. That defies democracy.

So the super delegates have already declared sides? Or do they declare at your party meeting?
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Shiver
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Re: Hillary bashing
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2008, 12:10:11 am »

So the super delegates have already declared sides? Or do they declare at your party meeting?

Does somebody pay you $10 every time you ask a question? Good lord. The superdelegates voice support for various candidates before the voting even begins, but they can jump ship and vote for someone else at the Democratic convention.
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Lukipela
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Re: Hillary bashing
« Reply #54 on: March 09, 2008, 01:13:21 pm »

Does somebody pay you $10 every time you ask a question? Good lord. The superdelegates voice support for various candidates before the voting even begins, but they can jump ship and vote for someone else at the Democratic convention.

Ah right. The image I got from the media here was that the super delegates only declare their support once all the regular voting is over, at the convention. That's why I didn't understand why you discounted them as "already spoken for". So all the super delegates (or almost all) are already bound to a candidate, and don't matter any more unless they change their vote.

That is one weird system.
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Death 999
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Re: Hillary bashing
« Reply #55 on: March 14, 2008, 04:48:37 pm »

We're thinking of replacing it, if that helps.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 05:01:00 pm by Death 999 » Logged
RTyp06
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Re: Hillary bashing
« Reply #56 on: March 14, 2008, 10:32:27 pm »

Kinda funny yet pathetic, the USA, the supposid epitome of democracy, dosen't have a  solution to a tie presidential race. Because the super delegates are too chicken to set off a storm of controversy, which is bound to happen upon nominee. Because we are using an archaic system. What level of incompetence does it take to paint yourself into a corner with contradictory laws such as those that plauge Florida law? And to further our world wide embarrasment, the multitudes of litigation cases that surely will follow the democratic presidential race.

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Lukipela
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Re: Hillary bashing
« Reply #57 on: March 15, 2008, 03:33:42 pm »

We're thinking of replacing it, if that helps.

Depends. What are you replacing it with?

Quote
Kinda funny yet pathetic, the USA, the supposid epitome of democracy, dosen't have a  solution to a tie presidential race.

Worse than that, you don't even have a solution for a tied nomination race. I think it'd be ironically amusing if the same thing happened in the actual election.

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Draxas
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Re: Hillary bashing
« Reply #58 on: March 17, 2008, 03:38:31 pm »

Didn't we already see exactly that in the 2000 race? The president was effecitvely elected by the Supreme Court after the whole recount / butterfly ballot / hanging chad fiasco.
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Death 999
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Re: Hillary bashing
« Reply #59 on: March 17, 2008, 06:06:27 pm »

We're thinking of replacing it, if that helps.

Depends. What are you replacing it with?

Under discussion. But lots of people are realizing the PLEOs are all danger and no benefit, so it'll probably be a system just based on the voters. It's hard to see how that could be worse.
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