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Author Topic: Fighting Chmmr Avatar  (Read 16644 times)
Particleman42
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Fighting Chmmr Avatar
« on: April 12, 2008, 02:01:47 am »

What are the best ships/strategies for fighting the Avatar?
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Re: Fighting Chmmr Avatar
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2008, 03:04:52 am »

What are the best ships/strategies for fighting the Avatar?

Utwig - The Chmmr's satellites allow you to constantly shield whenever the Chmmr is nearby and not have to worry about your battery running out. Utwig has slightly longer range so you can pop them once or twice as you move in and then turn on your shield button to negate the Chmmr's ridiculous firepower. This is not a fun match to practice against the computer because you'll find them pointlessly holding down the tractor beam to try and keep you sitting next to them until you can wiggle free. Human opponents don't do this, but they will try to screw with you in other ways. Regardless, Utwig holds a definite upper hand over Chmmr.

Druuge - When Druuge shoots, it flies backwards on recoil. Druuge has a much longer range than Chmmr (duh), so you can pound the crap out of Chmmr from far away. That's how it works in theory. In practice, Chmmr and Druuge are on even ground against each other and player skill determines the outcome. I play a Druuge counter against Chmmr because I'm good with it. Others may be better off using something else. One useful bit of advice: Holding thrust while facing any direction functions like a brake while the Druuge is soaring at a high speed from recoil.

Chmmr - If their Chmmr is damaged from the onset, yours should win. Move in slowly and do your best to maximize beam damage.

VUX - If a Chmmr is heavily damaged but still standing, VUX is a perfect finisher. Try not to fly through a ring of satellites after you bring down the ship, they can continue firing as the Chmmr itself explodes.

Shofixti followed by Spathi - Suicide bomb the Chmmr's satellites. If you get all three, the Chmmr is helpless against Spathi. I don't have much experience playing this because I doubt I (or anyone) can nail three satellites consistently. I'm also not experienced in using Spathi against a single satellite Chmmr enough to know which ship has the upper hand.
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Particleman42
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Re: Fighting Chmmr Avatar
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2008, 04:27:14 am »

Thanks, that's really helpful!
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Re: Fighting Chmmr Avatar
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2008, 09:19:36 am »

In addition to what Shiver said, there are some ships you should self-destruct right away in a battle against Chmmr and some ships you should not disregard as they can do surprisingly lots of damage to Chmmr.

Ships that should be self-destructed against Chmmr are at least Thraddash and Supox. That is because they can win the fight in theory, but it would take hours of fighting and nobody wants to see that.

Some ships that can be surprisingly efficient against Chmmr are Pkunk, Androsynth, Syreen and even Slylandro.

With one life, a Pkunk can take about 20 crew with two highly successful attack runs. It is also possible to damage the Chmmr without losing crew at all but I don't think there's anyone yet who can do that continuously. I have tried it a few times and I'd probably win with three or four respawns.

Androsynth can get stuck between the wing and body of Chmmr ship in blazer form and then the Chmmr gets destroyed almost instantly.

If the Chmmr captain is careless, Syreen can win the fight with a few successful fly-by special attacks. The worst thing the Chmmr can do is to start a dogfight with Syreen where the Syreen continuously uses special and then when the Chmmr is at firing range, turns around and gets dozens of crew. It is rare but possible.

Slylandro can win against Chmmr, but it is very difficult. I have managed to get it down to about 20 crew. The problem with the fight is that one mistake usually means death to the Slylandro. You just have to be patient, but it is not a dull fight like with Supox or Thraddash.
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Re: Fighting Chmmr Avatar
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2008, 11:45:58 am »

Shiver - I think Spathi wins pretty definitively against a one-sat Chmmr. I guess I have yet to try it against a top human player though.

Tiberian - Your Syreen and probably Supox analyses have the usual flaw that they rely on sub-optimal play from the opponent to succeed.
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Re: Fighting Chmmr Avatar
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2008, 06:44:38 am »

Nonsense. The longest it takes me to take an Avatar with a Blade is 10 minutes. (Although That's against a computer)





Try playing against an experienced human opponent and see why the time it takes for Supox to win increases by a whole order of magnitude, as opposed to correcting Tiberian on how the game works.
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Cedric6014
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Re: Fighting Chmmr Avatar
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2008, 11:23:34 am »

As far as I'm concerned, now we have NetMelee,  Player vs AI melee is obsolete.

I'm not interested in how many AI chmmr some schmuck can annihilate with a Thraddash.

Posting about how actually the Spathi is awesome becasue it can run thorugh fleets of Ur-Quan and Kohr-Ah is likely to irritate anyone with more than a few PvP encounters under their belt

I have a preference for not seeing any posts about folks' experience vs AI. PvP is all that matters. Of course since I am unable to hunt you down and spank you, feel free to disregard my comments
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Re: Fighting Chmmr Avatar
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2008, 11:43:41 am »

Nonsense! I never said that!

Besides, is there really a point in trying to use tactics with the Avatar? I, at least, could never think of a way to do this; the weapons are designed for brawn, not brain.

In short, I don't see a reason that a PvP fight would be different than a PvC fight in this case.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 11:51:15 am by jaychant » Logged
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Re: Fighting Chmmr Avatar
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2008, 02:03:54 pm »

Nonsense! I never said that!

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Besides, is there really a point in trying to use tactics with the Avatar? I, at least, could never think of a way to do this; the weapons are designed for brawn, not brain.

In short, I don't see a reason that a PvP fight would be different than a PvC fight in this case.

There are no ships that don't improve from better tactics. The closest thing to a brain-dead ship would be the Earthling Cruiser, and even those are noticeably different as to whether the pilot is a player or computer. Chmmr is only brain-dead when you're fighting something that has no chance of even hurting it properly, such as Arilou.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 02:08:28 pm by Shiver » Logged
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Re: Fighting Chmmr Avatar
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2008, 05:30:47 am »

Then name some tactics you can use with the Avatar and explain how it makes a difference.
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Shiver
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Re: Fighting Chmmr Avatar
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2008, 07:04:22 am »

Then name some tactics you can use with the Avatar and explain how it makes a difference.

With Chmmr vs Supox, the entire game revolves quite literally around the planet. Search for it at the start of the match if you don't already see it. Take it slowly and wander carefully to minimize the chance of planet crashing. After all, it's not like Supox will deliver a deathblow while you're wandering around the screen. Once Chmmr finds the planet, get in orbit. Make a point of paying more attention to the planet and any asteroids than the other player. This will minimize the chance of ramming the planet. Whenever you feel inclinced, dive at the Supox via gravity whip and turn on your tractor beam. Chmmr might catch Supox, it might not. Supox needs to fire an awful lot of shots to bring down even one satellite, and its window of opportunity to fire on Chmmr while the Chmmr is orbiting or making a gravity whip is small. I tend to sit on the planet a long time before pouncing so the Supox player gets more time to contemplate the futility of the match. This can be a very dull fight if the Supox player is stubborn, but they will eventually slip up and get caught.

Orz plays a similar match against Chmmr, but can potentially win since it can mount its turret to the rear and fire sturdy projectiles that can cut right past a satellite ring. I used to be a big proponent of Orz as a Chmmr counter until players started adapting their Chmmr technique to beat me. Supox is essentially the same as an Orz against Chmmr except much weaker.

The difference between a planet-abusing Chmmr and the computer is vast. What does the computer Chmmr do? It flies straight at you and flips its tractor beam on and off. Yawn.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 07:10:10 am by Shiver » Logged
jaychant
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Re: Fighting Chmmr Avatar
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2008, 03:23:34 pm »

Like I said on the SCDB, can't wait to beat... uh, I mean, play you. Wink

To be more specific, the AI Chmmr keeps the Tractor beam on UNLESS you are either moving towards it or ALMOST close enough for it to hit you.

I've only just started to utilize the planet; When I'm fighting an "insect" ship with a drone, I just orbit the planet and wait. Other than that, no planets. (Besides, the computer's perfect aim always messes me up! Wink)
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Lukipela
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Re: Fighting Chmmr Avatar
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2008, 03:44:18 pm »

Like I said on the SCDB, can't wait to beat... uh, I mean, play you. Wink

I seriously hope you capture the fight and upload it to Youtube. It would be, interesting...
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Re: Fighting Chmmr Avatar
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2008, 06:11:27 pm »

Playing against the computer is really only a way to practice using all the aspects of your ship. Its not a good measure of how your ship will hold up against other ships with human opponents. The computer seems to be fairly simplistic in what it does, and its easy to fool the computer into doing what you want. Human opponents, not so much. Shiver, even less so.
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Particleman42
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Re: Fighting Chmmr Avatar
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2008, 10:16:33 pm »

Then name some tactics you can use with the Avatar and explain how it makes a difference.

With Chmmr vs Supox, the entire game revolves quite literally around the planet. Search for it at the start of the match if you don't already see it. Take it slowly and wander carefully to minimize the chance of planet crashing. After all, it's not like Supox will deliver a deathblow while you're wandering around the screen. Once Chmmr finds the planet, get in orbit. Make a point of paying more attention to the planet and any asteroids than the other player. This will minimize the chance of ramming the planet. Whenever you feel inclinced, dive at the Supox via gravity whip and turn on your tractor beam. Chmmr might catch Supox, it might not. Supox needs to fire an awful lot of shots to bring down even one satellite, and its window of opportunity to fire on Chmmr while the Chmmr is orbiting or making a gravity whip is small. I tend to sit on the planet a long time before pouncing so the Supox player gets more time to contemplate the futility of the match. This can be a very dull fight if the Supox player is stubborn, but they will eventually slip up and get caught.

Orz plays a similar match against Chmmr, but can potentially win since it can mount its turret to the rear and fire sturdy projectiles that can cut right past a satellite ring. I used to be a big proponent of Orz as a Chmmr counter until players started adapting their Chmmr technique to beat me. Supox is essentially the same as an Orz against Chmmr except much weaker.

The difference between a planet-abusing Chmmr and the computer is vast. What does the computer Chmmr do? It flies straight at you and flips its tractor beam on and off. Yawn.

See, against the computer (which is all I know so far) I've found it is laughably easy to destroy Supox and maybe Orz with Chmmr. Just fly at them and use tractor, then laser them. I see that a human would be much harder to defeat.
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