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Author Topic: 'They' cannot see you now.  (Read 37351 times)
NECRO-99
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Re: 'They' cannot see you now.
« Reply #75 on: February 25, 2004, 03:36:23 am »

Either that or the Kzer-Za were too involved in dealing with the Doctrinal Conflict to send even a single 'nought to Androsynth space.
I would assume that all the Androsynth onboard Dreadnoughts were *pulled* at a relatively close proximity in time, tied, of course, to when the homeworld's inhabitants were as well.
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Re: 'They' cannot see you now.
« Reply #76 on: March 03, 2004, 12:26:49 am »

The Ur-Quan might not have even cared if the Androsynth started to dissappear, they were only lowly battle thralls.

As for the Orz, I have to side with the belief that they are not truly evil.  If they were, then there is really no reason that they could not just destroy or pull into another dimension any lifeform they come into contact with.  As it was stated earlier,
it is discovered that the Androsynth become obsessed with finding any and all information they can about "ghosts" and "spirits."  This, I presume, would be the *they*.  They Orz have chosen a specific form to interact with realspace, and it does not resemble ghosts.  It may be possible that the Orz tried to hide the Androsynth in many ways.  One way would be to pull them into another dimension (which they may or may not have survived the process, and would cause the subject to be quite touchy for the Orz).  Another, quite possibly would be to destroy the Androsynth, with the possibility that their spirits would rise to a dimension out of reach of the *they*, the ghosts.  Even so, the Androsynth may not like being forced into this or that dimension by the Orz, which is why they might have resisted or may still be resisting.  The statement "there are no more androsynth now, only Orz" does not have to mean that there are no more Androsynth period.  It may just mean that there are no more Androsynth in any dimesion that you can reach, especially since the Arilou are not very forthcoming with you because they do not want you to go looking.

As for the possibilities of the Arilou's capabilities to move in and out of realspace, it does seem that the only QS-->RS wormhole existing (at least in the game) is the the eddy that takes you to there homeworld.  And while it may not be possible for the Arilou to travel from QS to HS or RS at any time, many have overlooked the possibility that the Arilou may be able to breech these boundries through some other dimension in space.  It may be that there is another dimension that can access anyone one of these.  It is obviously not the Orz, because they could not see realspace, but there could be countless other dimensions.  The Arilou not using there abilities to the fullest against the heirarchy means nothing.  In fact, they may have wanted the war to end as it had, with Earth protected under a slave shield, without atomic or any other comparable power source, unable to make the same mistakes that the Androsynth did.

Hmm... that was kinda long, hope it makes some sense.
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Re: 'They' cannot see you now.
« Reply #77 on: March 03, 2004, 01:37:15 am »

Also, I don't think that the Rainbow Worlds have much to do with the QS holes into HS.  The Slylandro state that the Precursors found/made the rainbow worlds to achieve their final goal (whatever it was) which inevitably lead to their leaving the galaxy/dimension.  It may be possible that in creating the rainbow worlds they created the QS-->HS wormholes without knowing it, but also unlikely.
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Re: 'They' cannot see you now.
« Reply #78 on: March 03, 2004, 03:01:42 am »

Then what you are saying is that the spathi are wrong when they said it was a "precursor dump". Probaly meaning that they were the precursors junkyard. I wonder if that is what the makers of the game meant......  

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Re: 'They' cannot see you now.
« Reply #79 on: March 03, 2004, 03:27:05 am »

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The Ur-Quan might not have even cared if the Androsynth started to dissappear, they were only lowly battle thralls.


Quoth the Ur-Quan:
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We will protect you from the hazards of this hostile universe, from dangers so hideous your simple minds cannot imagine their dark scope.


I know it probably doesn't mean much coming from a crazed millipede, but they believe what they say, and more importantly, they do what they say. There was no such thing as a 'lowly battle thrall'. They were all of equal worth in Ur-Quanian eyes, and all were under their protection.

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It may just mean that there are no more Androsynth in any dimesion that you can reach, especially since the Arilou are not very forthcoming with you because they do not want you to go looking.


I bet those little buggers know what happened, too. Angry

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In fact, they may have wanted the war to end as it had, with Earth protected under a slave shield, without atomic or any other comparable power source, unable to make the same mistakes that the Androsynth did.


Referring to the Arilou, I hope.
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Re: 'They' cannot see you now.
« Reply #80 on: March 03, 2004, 04:04:54 am »

Quote
Then what you are saying is that the spathi are wrong when they said it was a "precursor dump". Probaly meaning that they were the precursors junkyard. I wonder if that is what the makers of the game meant......  



Could have been dumping grounds of some sort, but does anyone have any idea how that would play into what the Slylandro say about the rainbow worlds?  Could it be that they created the worlds and positioned them in such a way in the galaxy as to utilize some collective force to achieve whatever goal they managed to obtain?
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Re: 'They' cannot see you now.
« Reply #81 on: March 03, 2004, 04:11:36 am »

Quote




I bet those little buggers know what happened, too. Angry


Referring to the Arilou, I hope.


I don't think there is any doubt that they knew what happened to the Androsynth.  I wouldn't be suprised if they knew what happened to the Taalo, the Precursors, and the Sentient Milue.  The Arilou are obviously a sneaky lot.  I wonder why they even bothered to help the human race at all, there must be some gain for them in this.  Too bad SC3 didn't pick up when any of this stuff really left off Angry.

And yes, I was refering to the Arilou.
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Re: 'They' cannot see you now.
« Reply #82 on: March 03, 2004, 04:19:54 am »

Quote


Could have been dumping grounds of some sort, but does anyone have any idea how that would play into what the Slylandro say about the rainbow worlds?  Could it be that they created the worlds and positioned them in such a way in the galaxy as to utilize some collective force to achieve whatever goal they managed to obtain?


I have an idea about this.  If anyone here reads It's Walky, then they may know where I'm going with this.  Recently, a couple of the comics involved a group moving from one dimension to another, and to do so without destroying the dimension they were leaving, there had to be some sort of transfer of mass/energy/something to replace the lost energy.  Maybe this is what the rainbow worlds are for/made of?  I know it's a far fetch, because during travel to QS and HS, it is not needed.  Maybe wherever the Precursors went wasn't even another dimension, but some other aspect of space/time, and it was necessary to avoid destroying all they left behind and all they were moving for.  Then again, it would help to explain why the Orz can't just move fully into RS, although I don't know why the Arilou would not have to worry about this (probably cuz they're sneaky little bastards).

I'm quoting my own posts, which means it's about time for me to get my own sig.
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Re: 'They' cannot see you now.
« Reply #83 on: March 03, 2004, 09:36:30 am »

Here's some new ideas for you so as to confuse everything even more:

1) The orz are the *fingers* of the Precursors. The Precursors are giants as you will recall. their fingers may well be the size of an Orz. They have possibly evolved so far as that even some of their limbs and/or organs have gained sentience.

2) The Rainbow Worlds are the easy places. This is what the Precursors constructed them for. They used these to travel to whatever dimension they are in now and their fingers managed to poke through from that dimension. If the Orz are the fingers of the Precursors this explains why those are the 10 easy places they know about.

3) The Orz did try to rescue the Androsynth (sort of, more like they helped the Precursors). "Snatched" does not necessarily imply that they struggled. Rather it means they were taken quickly without warning. Perhaps when the Precursors learned of the Androsynths discovery they attempted to pull all the Androsynth in with them. But in order to do so they would need to punch further in than with just their fingers. This explains maybe the "mosquito mange" effect.

4) "They" are most definately NOT the Orz. The Androsynth discovered "They" first. Then the Precursors sensed this from their dimension and and punched through in order to save the Androsynth. The fingers stayed behind because they liked it in *heavy space*.

5) *Bubbles* are atoms. *Many bubbles* are molecules. Most molecular models show atoms as bubbles, and molecules are made up of multiple atoms or many bubbles. We think the Orz are made up of some type of molecular structure similar to ours but that may not be the case in their dimension. Human bodies can only withstand one set of physical laws but the Precursors bodies may have been capable of adapting to new physics. Thus, the Orz are made up of whatever they need to be made of in order to exist in the plane they are on. My guess is they are from some type of ethreal or astral plane as they refer to our dimension as *heavy space*.

I sat up all night reading this entire thread to make sure I didn't repeat anybody else too much. I enjoyed everyone else's veiws very much and couldn't tear myself from a single post. I would very much like to hear some thoughts.
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Re: 'They' cannot see you now.
« Reply #84 on: March 03, 2004, 10:20:10 am »

Quote
Here's some new ideas for you so as to confuse everything even more:

1) The orz are the *fingers* of the Precursors.


4) "They" are most definately NOT the Orz. The Androsynth discovered "They" first. Then the Precursors sensed this from their dimension and and punched through in order to save the Androsynth. The fingers stayed behind because they liked it in *heavy space*.

5) *Bubbles* are atoms. *Many bubbles* are molecules. Most molecular models show atoms as bubbles, and molecules are made up of multiple atoms or many bubbles. We think the Orz are made up of some type of molecular structure similar to ours but that may not be the case in their dimension. Human bodies can only withstand one set of physical laws but the Precursors bodies may have been capable of adapting to new physics. Thus, the Orz are made up of whatever they need to be made of in order to exist in the plane they are on. My guess is they are from some type of ethreal or astral plane as they refer to our dimension as *heavy space*.



While possible, there are some descrepancies.  If the Orz are indeed an extention of the Precursor, then why is there a problem with the translation.  It is clear that through dealings with the Slylandro that the Precursors were at least able to manage common dialect that is obviously maintained well enough so that you can make out all of what the Slylandro tell (though I will give that they have also had interaction with the Milue and the Melnorme).  As a lesser extension of the Precursor, the Orz should at least be able to manage something like that.  Also, the thought of sentience within sentience does not seem plausible.  If a portion of sentience within another sentient being tried to rebel (felt imprisoned or whatever), it could mean the end of the greater sentient being.  It'd be like a person's liver rebelling against an alcoholic.   I don't think that a sentient being, such as the precursors (with as much power as we assume they have) would give lesser portions of themselves such possibly self-destructive power.  I also do not feel that the Precursors would just allow a part of themselves to remain in real space, a place which they undertook such great feats such as the rainbow worlds to leave.  However, I do agree with your take on the *bubbles*.  I think that the Orz, as their own entity manipulate normal space in order to create molecular beings such as is seen, in order to interact with other species.
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Re: 'They' cannot see you now.
« Reply #85 on: March 03, 2004, 11:05:53 am »

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While possible, there are some descrepancies.  If the Orz are indeed an extention of the Precursor, then why is there a problem with the translation.  It is clear that through dealings with the Slylandro that the Precursors were at least able to manage common dialect that is obviously maintained well enough so that you can make out all of what the Slylandro tell (though I will give that they have also had interaction with the Milue and the Melnorme).  As a lesser extension of the Precursor, the Orz should at least be able to manage something like that.  Also, the thought of sentience within sentience does not seem plausible.  If a portion of sentience within another sentient being tried to rebel (felt imprisoned or whatever), it could mean the end of the greater sentient being.  It'd be like a person's liver rebelling against an alcoholic.   I don't think that a sentient being, such as the precursors (with as much power as we assume they have) would give lesser portions of themselves such possibly self-destructive power.  I also do not feel that the Precursors would just allow a part of themselves to remain in real space, a place which they undertook such great feats such as the rainbow worlds to leave.


Hmmm....
I think I can answer most of that. The fingers evoled sentience seperate from the Precusors. Thus, they may have developed their own language and hence the problems with translation. Senteience within sentience has been done in other sci-fi stories. An example of this is Vampire Hunter D. D's hand is itself a seperate sentient being. Most sentients that are part of another sentient would probably not rebel as we can assume they have evolved enough to know that destroying the host will most likely destroy themselves. Even at the earliest stages of evolution some form of instinct or genetic programming would likely prevent this. Finally, I believe the Precursors may have allowed the Orz to remain behind so nobody would get too suspicous and go snooping around for the Androsynth. They figured most races would simply think that the Androsynth were conquered by the Orz and leave it at that. The Orz had never been to *heavy space* so the Precursors might have just made a concession in order to keep them happy and/or occupied so that they could get on with more important matters.
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Re: 'They' cannot see you now.
« Reply #86 on: March 03, 2004, 11:39:49 am »

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Finally, I believe the Precursors may have allowed the Orz to remain behind so nobody would get too suspicous and go snooping around for the Androsynth. They figured most races would simply think that the Androsynth were conquered by the Orz and leave it at that. The Orz had never been to *heavy space* so the Precursors might have just made a concession in order to keep them happy and/or occupied so that they could get on with more important matters.



Good points except for that last one I'm having trouble with.  I'm pretty sure that the Slylandro said that the Precursors were leaving because they were worried (i think that's what they said, but don't quote me) about something.  I doubt they would allow parts of themselves to remain in a dimension in which they had something to worry about.  There are a couple of other things too, but I'm having trouble getting them all into coherent thoughts cuz this is all starting to hurt my brain.  It has something to do with the Orz, chasing the *they*, and the Nggn though, if someone wants to take stabs in the dark.

And I must admit, since I first played SC2 when I was little, and unable to decypher all the plot craziness, SC3 was even worse plot wise then I could possibly imagine.  I mean, did it answer anything? :-/
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Re: 'They' cannot see you now.
« Reply #87 on: March 03, 2004, 11:41:25 am »

Contentious statement #1: The Orz entity found the Androsynth because they "looked" and thenceforth could find all Androsynths because it had "got the knack of it." Then the parasitic Orz entity "pulled" on the Androsynth, and eventually transformed them into the "Orz fingers" which affect this reality like independent hands for it.

Contentious statement #2: The Arilou are not just from a higher form of space, but also time. They are what humans eventually evolve into.

How's that?
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Re: 'They' cannot see you now.
« Reply #88 on: March 05, 2004, 10:44:28 pm »

Even though the SC3 plot was not excellent, in my opinion it's explanation about precursors and rainbow worlds was very good, since it was not at all in any conflict with SC2 and some pieces of information gathered in SC2 even boost that story.

So far I think SC3 offers the best explanation to what happened to the precursors and why. Even though it is 'the evil SC3' I like it.

I don't think the Precursors or the rainbow worlds have anything to do with this orz-arilou scheme.
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Re: 'They' cannot see you now.
« Reply #89 on: March 06, 2004, 06:07:15 pm »

I don't think the Precursors or the Rainbow Worlds have any significance regarding Orz. As for SC3, I wouldn't say people think of it as evil... more like, a bad game that shouldn't have happened. The story was not written by TFB, which is a definite minus, but the main thing is that the game was dull and uninspired.

http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/sc3/sc3www.shtml

There are probably many other points you could add to that list. One of the game's two primary goals: "Find the cause of Inter-Dimensional Fatigue, and reverse it to restore Hyper Space travel" is already enough to warrant a red flag. IDF causing the collapse of hyperspace travel seems ludicrous. The plot was full of problems.

All-in-all, none of the elements in SC3 stood out. It was poor as an adventure game, as a strategy game, and as an action game.
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